I flew with guys at Coex that had been furloughed from CAL. They'd tell me, on multiple occasions, that even after informing the Captain they were about to be furloughed the Captain would show them their schedule for the month and brag about all of the time they picked up- all at straight pay. I don't know but I thought I read on here about CAL Captains picking up trips as FOs, not sure if true and not sure if it was while pilots were furloughed.

Now I know of our history with the WS's and greedslips (as I read in the WSJ in the late 90s) and the lawsuits and all concerning internet posters. But imho, the first goal is to attack outsourced flying during involuntary furloughs and I'd like to see the contract say straight pay for premium flying while pilots are on involuntary furlough and premium for junior manning.

btw non-DAL folks, premium pay = double pay for all intents and purposes.

First, I disagree with the trips WILL be covered, in JFK I watched many days where flights were canceled because crews didn't commute in.

To your point, in the case of junior manning why not have a senior pilot replace the junior pilot via GS? I don't have a problem with that as I see it was an opportunity to cause an even larger 'furlough penalty' as they're paid more. I'd prefer if pilots put in GSWC (say 4x pay if the stars align) and really cause a penalty. Not to mention getting to the junior manning point would mean reserve coverage was already burned to the ground.

What I have a problem with is WS or straight pay pick ups while pilots are on furlough. So you have pilots building their lines to 99 hours a month, showing it to pilots on furlough notice, and thereby causing the reserve coverage to remain healthy. That I have a problem with.

It's tantamount T to being in a 4 man crew on the ER and having the other senior A brag about all of the WS's he's gotten while you're getting bumped off and coming back to the 88 with ME. If I'm here. Now imagine if I'm not here? You're life will be empty.

 

To the best of my knowledge, UAL didn't have a JM clause at the time, so I'm afraid my anecdote doesn't directly apply to that question. That said, I know that in practice, schedulers work JMs into their projections as well. I'd recommend people take the same steps I did to avoid it when I worked at a company that used it. Know your contract. Be aware of what constitutes a "legal" JM assignment. Be acutely aware of the contractually acceptable means by which the company can notify you. Keep your union reps on speed dial (yes, even if they are useless). For extra credit, keep an emergency beer next to the phone at all times, to be opened prior to answering calls from unfamiliar numbers. If you DO get stuck with a legal JM, fly your contract and nothing more. If the resulting schedule disruption results in fatigue (REAL fatigue, not "I hate these arseholes" fatigue), notify scheduling of such.

A competent schedule head is aware that assigning a JM is a stop-gap measure, and indicative of endemic problems in the staffing level. An airline schedule head is likely to get the message eventually. Anything above and beyond your legally assigned schedule (over and open time) allows the required headcount to shrink. To do so with people on furlough prolongs their time on the street.

 

You have to remember that an "airline schedule head" is still at the whims of bean counters. So although he may still get it, if they can staff the operation with continuous JM'ing/extending, along with pilots picking up open time, they will. Especially when they run the numbers and in the end it's STILL cheaper to use that as a staffing solution than calling back furloughed pilots and upgrading.

My company spent the majority of this year with that M.O.

The only thing that fixed it was HUGE increase in aircraft utilization, as well as the the MEC constantly bugging them to remove their head from their rectum.

 

Who's the self righteous person that decides what someone does on their own time? If you want to pick up then pick up. If you don't, then don't pickup. I see these ridiculous posts where people think they can control other people's lives. Get over yourself and quit worrying about what everyone else is doing.

 

Of course it should be, but it's not. So now we have to deal with the situation as best we can. Past practice at UAL was the JR manning was used for irregular operations. There was no reason to spell it out any further since we were properly staffed, and JR (and SR) manning was an occassional good deal. It wasn't until after the BK and the furloughs that UAL started using JR man for regular staffing.

As for your statement that no, you're not rationalizing; I'm not sure why you felt like you had to put yourself in front of that bullet. The contract is what it is. We understood the rule based on past practice. After BK the company changed the rules. ALPA cannot send out any message contrary to the current interpretation, however, if everyone is paying attention, then they understand the message for what it is.

Sadly, I guess everybody needs to have a picture drawn for them. (edit: this is a poor choice of words, and not what I meant to say. I could edit, but it has been quoted. )


Hog

 

Putting myself in front of a bullet? Huh? With the tone of the original post being in general, it was a simple statement that applied to the topic in general, not United , not ALPA....or anyone else. You know, there are other airlines...and even other unions!

No picture drawing necessary as I understand it just fine. I guess some people feel the need condescend in order to validate themselves. Don't project your personal issues here. That would be off topic.

 

Let's review the original question: debate at NJA about picking up flying during a time of furlough....... Want to get the opinions from the Major guys.... Is it a ok thing to do or not??

The answer is, by most, NO.

Just as it is within their rights to pick up open time while pilots are on involuntary furlough it is within everyone's rights to rightfully refer to them as *******s and there are numerous posts to explain why.

Nobody with any sense is going to go SEIU on someone for picking up open time, however, I'll gladly tell anyone that listens why I wouldn't do it and would be in favor of anything that can be contractually done to deter it. It is one of the reasons I like 2x pay for trips and some of the other work rules we have at DAL, it's an incentive to help out for sure (especially when their short staffed while hiring) but it's also an incentive to staff correctly.

Does that mean no open time pick up? No, that's too complicated of a blank statement to make. But if the min is 75 hours and someone is sitting at 100 hours of straight time at the end of the month, screw em'. I think that's what most people, who care about people, would say.

 

Crazy idea I know, but how about not answering the phone!?! I always chuckle when I hear a line pilot say something like 'the schedule has to be flown!' BS, people get paid to figure out how to staff the company appropriately. Bring back the furloughees first and maybe you won't have to live on the whim of me wishing to enjoy my days off in July...

 

"I'm on board boys, pull the ladder up!" Classic IGM!
fbh

 

What an arrogant statement. If you're going to be arrogant, at least have something to be arrogant about.