Picking up open time/ extra during furlough
12-04-2010 | 11:05 PM
#31
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From: -400 FO
We were overstaffed by a confluence of factors (age 65, financial crisis, acceleration of retiring 3 man crew aircraft, a fight about management pilots and probably SCS). I thank my union brothers for not accepting open time. I do believe that saved the furlough from going higher. That saved me since I am in the bottom 10.
A company can do what they want. Hire, furlough, fire, change fleets, business plan etc. An employee has a choice to work their regular schedule and accept or deny overtime. When our company, with a balance sheet as good as UPS, decided to furlough after we took voluntary pay-cuts, I decided to no longer accept open time. I'll continue not to accept until our 109 brothers and sisters are back.
12-05-2010 | 12:24 AM
#32
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and is unwilling to take a stance other than it's ok if they do because it doesn't harm our staffing level at the present time.
12-05-2010 | 07:23 AM
#34
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From: A320 CA
I've never had an issue with doing it. Picking up flying is part of the job. It's not your fault that the company hired too many people. Fly what you need to fly to make the job worth it to you. That is one of the advantages to being more senior, and like it or not, that is part of the industry.
It would increase your companies chance of growing from the perspective that it is much cheaper to have 1 pilot fly 100 hours a month than it is to have 2 pilots fly 50 hours, but that is not why I pick up open time. I pick up open time because there is a financial benefit to doing so.
It would increase your companies chance of growing from the perspective that it is much cheaper to have 1 pilot fly 100 hours a month than it is to have 2 pilots fly 50 hours, but that is not why I pick up open time. I pick up open time because there is a financial benefit to doing so.
12-05-2010 | 08:10 AM
#35
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So what about picking up opentime even when your company has zero furloughs? Couldn't one argue that, by doing extra flying, pilots are preventing the additional hiring of pilots, like furloughs from another airline or flight instructors eagerly awaiting an opportunity? Does the hardship of unemployment apply only to furloughs, or does it extend to those who haven't been hired yet?
12-05-2010 | 08:28 AM
#36
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From: A320 CA
So what about picking up opentime even when your company has zero furloughs? Couldn't one argue that, by doing extra flying, pilots are preventing the additional hiring of pilots, like furloughs from another airline or flight instructors eagerly awaiting an opportunity? Does the hardship of unemployment apply only to furloughs, or does it extend to those who haven't been hired yet?
Be careful about picking up a ton of open time with guys on furlough, because the way this industry goes, you may be the guy on furlough one day.
Karma is a B****!
12-05-2010 | 08:51 AM
#37
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Let me answer your question with a question. Is it fair to compare someone that has lost their job and is living off unemployement waiting for the company to NEED more pilots to someone that has a job and is merely trying to advance their career?
Be careful about picking up a ton of open time with guys on furlough, because the way this industry goes, you may be the guy on furlough one day.
Karma is a B****!
Be careful about picking up a ton of open time with guys on furlough, because the way this industry goes, you may be the guy on furlough one day.
Karma is a B****!
12-05-2010 | 08:59 AM
#38
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I don't pick up OT with guys on furlough. The furloughed person may have a successful wife/husband with a great income, while a yet-to-be-hired pilot may have a dire financial situation. Who knows... So Why isn't OT a consistently frowned upon topic, even in good times?
12-05-2010 | 09:17 AM
#39
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Whether or not a persons spouse makes good money or not isn't not a valid arguement. A furlough is a loss of a job and an associate loss of substantial income in most cases. Along with that comes the associated brotherhood of pilots that gets tossed out the window when guys are willing to show that they are using the short staffing (even if it is only temporary or for a couple days/trips) to gain $$ while the furloughed cannot.
12-05-2010 | 10:04 AM
#40
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
To the original poster, I'd recommend asking this question anywhere other than an online forum. OH GOODIE! it's the perfect place to ask the question You will get a far different type of response. Some will have my view unlikely and some will have another view. The people who post on this forum tend to be very radically pro union not so and have some radical views such as? on what is right and wrong. There is also a difference between what people say on here, and what they actually do.
I don't understand why that is such a hard concept for people to grasp. they all grasped it a long time ago
Why do pro athletes go to the minor leagues where they barely make anything? hmmm, baseball analogy, let's see And why do athletes spend 4 years playing in college where they make nothing? football analogy now, lets see.. They suffer through the low pay because there is a chance they can move to the next level in their career and make significantly more money. okay, maybe we'll get the punch line below?
Why do doctors go to med school for many years, then put up with up with 80 hour work weeks during their residency? Because there is a good chance that they will be making very good money later on. because everyone is in it for the money? Where's the end to the baseball/NFL-CFB analogy?
Why do airline pilots put up with 20k a year starting pay at a regional airline? Because they believe that one day they will be able to move on and make significantly more money. that's true, not sure how it related to picking up open time
If top pay for an airline captain was 90k a year, regional pilots top out below that for the most part far fewer people would suffer through 20k a year at a regional. yet they feel happy not applying to a major Less candidates mean the airlines would have to pay more. or they'd make 1 pilot cockpits - see Embraer reveals vision for single-pilot airliners
That doesn't mean that pilots at FedEx and UPS should take a pay cut so that regional pilots will make more, it is simply an observation that is factual. okay, now I'm lost The more money you are likely to make at the end of your career, the lower pay you are probably willing to take on to get into that career. It's true with athletes, it's true with doctors, it's true with pilots, it's true with every career. and that's why its good to pick up open time... oh wait, I'm confused...
I don't understand why that is such a hard concept for people to grasp. they all grasped it a long time ago
Why do pro athletes go to the minor leagues where they barely make anything? hmmm, baseball analogy, let's see And why do athletes spend 4 years playing in college where they make nothing? football analogy now, lets see.. They suffer through the low pay because there is a chance they can move to the next level in their career and make significantly more money. okay, maybe we'll get the punch line below?
Why do doctors go to med school for many years, then put up with up with 80 hour work weeks during their residency? Because there is a good chance that they will be making very good money later on. because everyone is in it for the money? Where's the end to the baseball/NFL-CFB analogy?
Why do airline pilots put up with 20k a year starting pay at a regional airline? Because they believe that one day they will be able to move on and make significantly more money. that's true, not sure how it related to picking up open time
If top pay for an airline captain was 90k a year, regional pilots top out below that for the most part far fewer people would suffer through 20k a year at a regional. yet they feel happy not applying to a major Less candidates mean the airlines would have to pay more. or they'd make 1 pilot cockpits - see Embraer reveals vision for single-pilot airliners
That doesn't mean that pilots at FedEx and UPS should take a pay cut so that regional pilots will make more, it is simply an observation that is factual. okay, now I'm lost The more money you are likely to make at the end of your career, the lower pay you are probably willing to take on to get into that career. It's true with athletes, it's true with doctors, it's true with pilots, it's true with every career. and that's why its good to pick up open time... oh wait, I'm confused...
I've never had an issue with doing it. SHOCKED... wait, shocked. Lower case. Picking up flying is part of the job. I never pick up any trips. I could bid off reserve and pick up trips but I don't. But you call when I'm on reserve and I'm there promptly... and I make the airline look darn good. 
It's not your fault that the company hired too many people. as long as your in who cares right? where are you in btw? Coex? Cal? Fly what you need to fly to make the job worth it to you. That is one of the advantages to being more senior, and like it or not, that is part of the industry. I agree, this mindset is a part of the industry, small part, but there nonetheless. It's generally classified as the *******s of the industry, a small disliked subset.
It would increase your companies chance of growing from the perspective that it is much cheaper to have 1 pilot fly 100 hours a month so, when said pilot times out at the end of the year who then flies in their place? than it is to have 2 pilots fly 50 hours, who flies 50 hours? Most min pay is 70-80. So, a pilot decides to fly 100 hours then really you're not reducing your need by half, what happens is (say 75 hour is the min) you need 3 pilots to fly 100 hours in order not to need a fourth pilot. When you get pilots to fly 100 hours a month you're running the risk of more sick calls and more 30/7s and so forth. So maybe you need to keep that other pilot anyways. However, if the pilots didn't pick up open time they'd need everyone.
You know, what would save money, if every sick call required a doctors notice and there was no sick time pay. That'd save the airline a fortune.
but that is not why I pick up open time. I pick up open time because there is a financial benefit to doing so. $10 says if they didn't pay you'd pick it up anyways.
It's not your fault that the company hired too many people. as long as your in who cares right? where are you in btw? Coex? Cal? Fly what you need to fly to make the job worth it to you. That is one of the advantages to being more senior, and like it or not, that is part of the industry. I agree, this mindset is a part of the industry, small part, but there nonetheless. It's generally classified as the *******s of the industry, a small disliked subset. It would increase your companies chance of growing from the perspective that it is much cheaper to have 1 pilot fly 100 hours a month so, when said pilot times out at the end of the year who then flies in their place? than it is to have 2 pilots fly 50 hours, who flies 50 hours? Most min pay is 70-80. So, a pilot decides to fly 100 hours then really you're not reducing your need by half, what happens is (say 75 hour is the min) you need 3 pilots to fly 100 hours in order not to need a fourth pilot. When you get pilots to fly 100 hours a month you're running the risk of more sick calls and more 30/7s and so forth. So maybe you need to keep that other pilot anyways. However, if the pilots didn't pick up open time they'd need everyone.
You know, what would save money, if every sick call required a doctors notice and there was no sick time pay. That'd save the airline a fortune.
but that is not why I pick up open time. I pick up open time because there is a financial benefit to doing so. $10 says if they didn't pay you'd pick it up anyways.
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