SkyHigh

It has always been one of my longest held beliefs that the break even point of an airline career at the majors is between 35 and 40 years of age. After that time one faces steeply accelerated depreciating returns.

The goal of every airline pilot should be to reach the left seat at a major airline and to acquire enough seniority to enjoy the position for long enough top be worth the previous decades of sacrifice. In my experience it commonly takes 10 to 15 years to upgrade at most majors (MD80,737) and a few years after that to reach a level of seniority to become comfortable with their choices of lines. After the age of 40 the time left isn't enough to reach the promised land at most airlines and by 45 the party is over. That being said the average age of new hires lately has been around 37 years old.

In order to make it to super star pilot status (747-400, 777 Captain) one almost needs to be hired on at birth. Of course the proposed age limit change to 65 would have an effect however pilots also start dropping out due to health issues by 55 as well.

In conclusion if you care at all about your financial future or about career and life goals a good idea is to have limits and standards in place and a solid exit strategy. Being a furloughed FO at 52 would not be much fun.

SkyHigh

ExDeltaPilot

Skyhigh,

Agree 100% - got hired at 43 and figured I MIGHT make left seat 737-800 some time in my mid 50s with very little chance of having great seniority in any seat before I hit 60 - 17 years is not enough - throw in 3.5 years of furlough on top of that.

LAfrequentflyer

I have said it before and I'll say it again...You have to have realistic goals...At 40 one should be looking no further than regionals.

-LAFF

hatetobreakit2u

thats why you need to change the payscales so the starting an ending salaries arent 5 times one another

you should get one big bump once you make captain and that should be it. why should a 7 year FO make 2x or 3x what he started at when his responsibilities are the same

SkyHigh

True, however most adults with normal responsibilities (wife, kids, mortgage, self funded retirement, college loans ect) wouldn't or couldn't accept such a fate at 40 plus unless perhaps they were financially independent or had a military retirement to fall back on.

SKyHigh

SkyHigh

I think the logic is that for the first few years an FO is receiving training and experience as a portion of the compensation. After a few years a seasoned and experienced FO needs a financial motivator to stay.

In the big picture however the airlines I am sure study very carefully what the breaking point is and keep the pay just slightly below that mark. Most people are too lazy to make a change in life even though they might be miserable.

In addition it is much cheaper to hire and train then it is to retain. Out of every new hire class 20% will stay no matter what. Over time the company can build up a seniority list of door mats that will roll over at the companies request.

SkyHigh

fecav8r

When I got hired at FedEx I was told "we're hiring Captains, not FO's" Unfortunately, due to a myriad of issues, not the least of which is the age old "QOL", there are a lot of guys who are happy just to jerk gear and fly every other leg from the right seat even though they could hold Captain long ago. They are usually the first one's to start talking about jacking up the pay rates. They are making 150K a year for sitting in the right seat of an MD or Airbus flying back and forth to OKC! Kind of like the PGA where a guy can make 1.5 mil a year and never finish higher that 10th in any tournament he plays in. Maybe we need something like the Olympic gymnastics. A level of difficulty. If you fly back and forth between Mem and OKC in the afternoon you get a level of did of 1. If you do 2 legs to GJT and COS in the middle of the night you get a LOD of 1.4.
Or maybe if you pass up the Left seat, you get one free bid and then the next time you pass it your pay is frozen at that level until you upgrade. Thoughts......

hatetobreakit2u

precisely that is whats wrong because the payscales are so exponentially stupid that anyone with seniority will bend over and gladly take it up the ass because he doesnt want to start over, if the starting and ending pays werent so far apart people wouldnt be scared to jump ship and go to a better company, this would leave the original company with a gap and they would fill that by enticing pilots back by making their company more appealing, and instead you now how companies competing for you, not the other way around.

its sad that it will never change though

fireman0174

When I was still flying, one of my pet beefs flying to Europe was F/Os who always bid the international relief pilot position, when they could be awarded a right seat position domestically, and then expected a leg every third segment.

shackone

It has always been one of my longest held beliefs that advice is best given by those with experience in the subject. In this instance, the poster has no experience in the majors.

"Break even point"? I have no idea what that means for the average aspiring airline pilot. Perhaps it means the point at which one's total salary accumulation equals the money spent on training costs. If so, this point would vary widely since new hires come from varied backgrounds with significant differences in money spent on acquiring the mins needed for employment.

"35 to 40 years of age"? At that age, the typical pilot has at least 50% of his career ahead of him, a significant amount of time in which to accumulate earnings.

"...steeply accelerated depreciating returns." This term usually means something like 'getting less and less for what is put in'. Since the passage of time in a typical career in the majors means increasing pay, this description seems in error. We don't make less over time, we make more. How much more is strictly a function of pay scales and seniority. No company that I am aware of pays its pilots less as they gain seniority.

That's the problem. You don't have any experience in the majors.

Upgrade time has varied considerably over the years...anywhere from practically overnight to darn near a life time. Anyone trying to generalize about this is just blowing smoke.

Advancement in the airline business goes with the business cycles and is highly dependent on a particular company's market position. Adding to the complexity of this issue is the possibility of loss of seat or furloughs due to turndowns in the economy.

Anyone looking to forecast what lies ahead today based upon the past is foolhardy. Just remember the old saying..."you'll never know if you made the right choices until the day you retire".

Is the 'promised land' the left seat? If so, this statement is in error for two reasons. One, it isn't true of the past...15 to 20 years was more than enough to acquire enough seniority to upgrade. Two, the poster doesn't have a crystal ball that will permit a look into the future. No one can accurately predict what lies ahead.

No...one just needed to be lucky enough to be hired at the right time and in the right place.

But let's be practical about this. The number of Captains flying that equipment is very small compared to the number of pilots on a seniority list. A new hire should have a pretty good idea from the gitgo where he stands...most companies can provide a projection of where one can expect to be at a given point in time...but it's all based on a 'best guess' scenario. Few companies are going to be top heavy in 74s or triple 7s...so do the math.

What the poster is wanting you to believe is that your career will be as unfortunate for you as it was for him.

Baloney!

His unsuccessful career was the result of his lousy career choices. He made his own nest...and now he wants you to lie down in it with him.

Don't fall victim to the 'misery loves company' mentality...and don't think life in the airline business is a 'get rich quick' deal either. It isn't.

Don't confuse occupation with preoccupation.

Occupation is what we all love to do...fly. Preoccupation is what too many folks fall victim to when all they see is dollar signs.