If you're talking Eagle agreement it's no interview, no medical, but still probationary. That doesn't apply to those already with numbers as they'll be non-probationary, but first year pay.

So how are the recalls/ acceptance rate going?

According to the eagle guy i talked to, Eagle did this to get pilots. They were down to 1 resume per day, and were going to run out of applicants by Oct. They were calling anyone who ever interviewed at Eagle, and anyone with info in the system they were so desperate, plus guys now at other regionals.

With the -121 ATP requirement starting in 2 years, they wanted to get low time guys in now so they would have a good shot at 1500 hours by 1 Aug, 2013, and would not have to stop flying until they got their ATP.

They announced that everyone at Eagle by Oct? XX? gets an AA class seat, and that the mins were reduced to 500/50. If you had less than the standard 800/100, then you needed an jet transition course before you started at Eagle. Eagle is paying for the jet transition course for the low time guys.

First time I have heard of a US airline paying for training outside of the airline, since the '60s/'70s.

cliff
GRB

Considering the fact that this AA opportunity for Eagle guys came from a geivance between the Pilot union and the company I don't think it was done to recruit specially when 12 hrs later the parent company announced that they were separating Eagle into it's own company. So no it didn't come out of not having enough resumes on file. As far as the ATP course, something similar was done a few years ago and is probably something that soon will be a norm in this industry!

Confusing statement, or at least I didn't understand it, about the recall acceptance rate. Somewhere between 10-20%, which is about what was expected.

The good news is that there is no announced plans to stop recalls and the rumors, supported by flight department statements, is that recalls will continue until off the street hiring starts next spring.

Lots can happen, lots can change, but let's hope it comes true.

Any news if some guys will take early retirement due to the recent stock market volatility?

There has been lots of speculation about it for quite a awhile, however nothing has materialized in any significant numbers as of yet.

EXTW

There's a lag time of about 3 months between market drops and when guys retire due to the way the retirement plan works.

October 2007 was the big market drop but guys didn't retire until Jan 2008.

Add a year to those? Dropped around end of '08, no?:confused:

Maybe I'm getting senile but I thought it was October 2007 with the retirements in Jan 2008, and a second bump in March 2008.

AA Pilot Retirement Facts: from the APA e-mail blast Aug 5, 2011

Over the last two months, more than 70 pilots have chosen to retire prior to the mandatory retirement age of 65. Over the next five years, more than 700 pilots will reach the mandatory retirement age of 65. Over the next five years, nearly 1,900 more pilots will reach age 60 (full retirement benefits age). By the end of 2020, more than 2,300 pilots will have reached the mandatory retirement age of 65. By the end of 2020, more than 4,400 pilots will have reached age 60.

Latest recall progress
 

10 Aug class of 18 received a mix - STL 80/767, MIA 76D/73I
24 Aug closed with 24
7 Sep closed with 13
21 Sep class is pending, expecting 18
5 & 19 Oct classes announced
Expect classes to continue 2/month with a 'rolling average' class size of 18, including Nov & Dec.

Junior red (TWA) pilot to be offered recall 9 Nov class.
Then a mix of AE pilots with seniority # and blue (AA) pilots.
Junior furloughed pilot projected to be offered recall March 2012.
Remainder of AE pilots with seniority # offered classes thru July '12
New hires with mix of AE pilots begins.
Disclaimer: This projection is as firm as molten jello.

The math:

• latest acceptance rate ~ 20%
• number of previous deferred now returning is variable
• MLOA number is variable
• projection quality has improved since furloughed pilot telethon

Wanna keep up with the latest? Click HERE.

Thought there was a push to get class sizes increased. Something like 60 a month?

Are you sure about the October classes being official? Just curious as to the source.

Mink--I may be wrong, but yes they would like to increase the class sizes (I don't know about the 60 number you state), however, they're having trouble getting enough furloughees to return in time for the class date. It takes time to contact all those people by letter/phone, wait up to 21 days for a reply and then get them in the next available class. I'm thinking there is trouble getting people to respond in time, and when they do with a "defer", it's too late to get someone else in it. Just my .02

Mink,

The statement was "they're hiring as many as they can as fast as they can. Ultimately the limit, as currently structured, would be about 60(65?)." (paraphrased) That number was just an educated guess.

The lead time to get spun up, from what I've been told, is measured in months, not weeks. Throw in the 17 months until the A320 shows up, along with a potential(hopefully!) training bubble developing, and they probably need 30 hrs in a day to stay afloat.

They've been claiming they want to put more through training, but they can't because they're hamstrung by a lack of check airman, sim time, etc........but they've been claiming that since the AE flow's started coming over in January (8.5 months ago).

After that period of time, they could have easily ramped up monthly classes to at least 60 if they wanted or needed to. They're training exactly as many as they WANT to train, 35-40/month and until they feel they want to train more for whatever reason, it will stay that way.

They know EXACTLY what they are doing.

eaglefly - perhaps, but they also didn't expect to order aircraft from Boeing AND Airbus, which might have really complicated some of the issues they're dealing with.

I wouldn't give them too much credit for knowing "exactly" what they're doing all the time. In any organization outside events, or decisions higher up the food chain, force the folks lower down the list to scramble.

CA Hale made it obvious that they're scrambling to get organized for the a/c deliveries, especially implemented a new fleet with 17 months lead time. He said some events got pushed up by a year. They can't respond to that within a matter of weeks.

Question - how long does STL have to remain a certain percentage size of ORD? How does ORD look for the future of American? I have heard it has shrunk in size a little bit
Thanks

Will someone explain to me how they come up with a 20% acceptance rate. Looking at the numbers provided from the above link I see:
Total recalled - 1021
Total Deferring - 812
= 1832 pilots offered a recall

Therefore, I come up with a 55.7% acceptance rate (1021/1832).
Someone help me out...

They called 1021 guys, 812 said not right now.

Then why does it say 1832 pilots offered a recall and not 1021?

latest I find... why so wound up about the recall rate anyway?

If you notice, it says the "latest" acceptance rate, not the "total acceptance rate. When they started the recalls originally, the acceptance rate was much higher than it is today. Latest recallees have been out for nearly 9 years. Many have found greener pastures and such.


EXTW

They way I read it is out of 1021 recall offers, only 209 have accepted. 209/1021=20%

latest I find... why so wound up about the recall rate anyway?

I was just curious because the numbers didn't add up to me.

They way I read it is out of 1021 recall offers, only 209 have accepted. 209/1021=20%

That's what I thought at first, but it specifically says 1832 pilots offered a recall in the spreadsheet.

If you notice, it says the "latest" acceptance rate, not the "total acceptance rate. When they started the recalls originally, the acceptance rate was much higher than it is today. Latest recallees have been out for nearly 9 years. Many have found greener pastures and such.


EXTW

This would make sense...thanks

Could the 1832 refer to everyone ever offerered recall(including 2008, 2009 etc) while the 1021 refers to the recent recall offers(Dec 2010+)???

What are the hiring minimums?

AA won't be needing new-hires until spring 2012 at the earliest. Barring the unforseen, I'd expect a new-hire window to be announced sometime in February or March. When that announcement happens, my bet says AA gets 10,000 apps within 14 days meeting their minimum quals. What those quals are, are anyone's guess right now.

I'd expect though (a guess) considering the market, the minimum to be 2500 hours part 121 or military, 500 PIC military or civilian jet/turboprop, bachelors preferred. Competitive requirements may easily be double that consisting of long-time regional captains, corproate/fractional pro's and experienced military vets fighter and heavy. A stray regional F/O here and there as well and a smattering of Eagle pilots (all captains with the competitive mins) to be included.

Soft requirements that are subjective and difficult to quantify are always there as well like work/driving/legal histories, interview skills and sim performance, but that we all know is in effect everywhere. I expect quite a dogfight for new-hire slots whenever that happens.

Curious what the I and D designations after the equipment type means? Am I correct in assuming International and Domestic?

Yep, You're correct.

800 guys to go until hiring. So with an acceptance rate of 20% that is 160 guys. That doesn't count guys coming off deferments or the second August class. If they go to 65 a month then AA would have to hire in October for November class dates. These dates could slide depending on retirements. If the stock market stay down for the rest of the month then all bets are off since there could anywhere from 100-500 retirements.

Ace - math appears to be ignoring the 150 (?) AE guys that will come over after the last TWA furloughee gets offered recall(estimated to be in Nov?) followed by the AA guys on the list behind the former TWA guys.

So it's ex TWA, bottom AA guys, 150 (?)AE flowthroughs, then off the street.

That's how folks are estimating off the street hiring in the spring. May is the month mentioned(obviously just an estimate).

No word on any increase to the current recall rate(35 ish).

oops, forgot about those guys. Don't know how many of the 150 will come over though. Technically there are some FT's that are senior to the bottom guys and even senior to some TWA guys so they will come over when AA recalls at their seniority. I betting that AA will have a massive retirement binge from the falling stock market and with that they will be hiring sometime in the next 90 days.

AA jumpseater yesterday said he heard 80ish just put in notice... I forgot for which month ... not sure how that works.. maybe someone that's in the know can chime in.
Disclaimer... he didn't sound to confident in that number.

Quagmire - union rep put out a msg that 500+ guys are over 60 and 100 guys under 60 have 'locked-in'. A 'locked-in' guy doesn't have to retire. If they choose they can relock every month. Forget to relock and they're retired at the end of the month. No mulligans... guys have tried. Adios.

Prior to retirement there are three statuses -

1. They're here (retire any day with the end of month value). Under age 50 is quit, after 50 is retired.

2. Locked in(retire any day and get the end of month value from 3 months prior). You can lock in, and relock, your entire career. Most guys do it for the last year or so prior to retirement.

3. Over 60 and automatically get the end of month minus 90 days prior value(that's what makes the company sweat with 500+ guys, mostly senior, and w/b, CA's in that bracket)

There is no 'notice'. Guys get the 'locked-in' status mixed up. You can lock in for years.

With the 60+ guys, and under 60 guys that are locked in, both having access to the market value 90 day look back feature there's significant attention being paid to the decision to retire NLT than Oct 31(get July 31 unit value) or earlier.

We'll have to wait and see how many additional guys leave EOF Aug/Sep/Oct due to the current market conditions. We're averaging 20-25(?) right now. Guys are guessing normal (60-75?) or up to 200, but it's just guessing. Financial advisor stated there's lots of attention, he thinks the number will be 'significant', but no one knows what the number will be.

Clear as mud?

Recall update
 

As of the Aug. 10 class, there are currently 807 pilots on furlough who've not been offered recall. There are 823 pilots remaining on deferred status.

There are 249 AE flow-throughs eligible to flow up to AA. 149 of these will be offered employment after the most junior furloughed pilot is offered recall. The remaining 100 AE pilots have seniority numbers junior to the junior red (TWA) pilot and will be intermixed with the remaining blue (native AA) pilots.

The Aug. 24 class (13 pilots) and Sept. 7 class (18 pilots) have been filled. They are calling for the Sept. 21 & Oct. 5 classes. An Oct. 19 class is planned.

Reports on Aug. 18 & 19 seem to conflict on the acceptance rate for the October 5 class. One caller saying it is higher (35%) and another lower than expected. I guess it depends more on what the company expects than on what the model projects. With the pilots being called for October 5, the model is still working.

Latest projection is the junior furloughed red pilot will be offered recall in the November 9 class, beginning the recall of the remaining AA pilots and opportunity for the next group of AE pilots.

The Be Prepared model says the last furloughed pilot may be offered recall in March 2012. Then, the next group of AE pilots. The model is now using a 75% acceptance rate for the junior 149 AE pilots and projects they will be offered classes in July 2012.

Some previous deferred pilots are accepting recall. A few are returning to immediate military leave. Some (may have) previously deferred in order to give proper notice, return from overseas flying, complete military service or to be more 'senior' in their recall class. Others are lurking to see what happens regarding a new contract and hoping for LOS credit.


You can see much of this HERE.

The 65/month is not happening soon. The preliminary count for Sept. 21 is a total of 16, with 8 of those being previous deferrals. The current rate is less than half of that etherial 65 number.

It sounds like they have added at least one reinforcement to the calling process, but if all this retirement conjecture materializes, that could put a huge short term load on the training resources and could, virtually stop recalls in the short term.

One 777/767 captain retires. That generates at least 5 training events? It ripples all the way back to the -80/737. All the crystal ball number of dozens or scores of retirements would exceed the training capacity.

With the section 6 discussions mired in wet concrete, there is conjecture about parking wide body jets due to lack of captains who choose to retire soon.

If they do end up parking jets due to manning problems, I sure hope APA can capitalize on AMR's pain in their negotiations.

Unless AA is just plotting a path to BK.