|
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 1007257)
If a new fleet type arrives (100-110 seater) that will likely be junior and it could go to any domicile (although I doubt the west coast), but when that arrives and whether it's available for any particular new-hire class wont be known until said new-hire arrives for class. This would open up movement for all fleet types (777 excluded) for new-hire availablility as junior in status and bottom RSV.
As it stands now, DFW and ORD and the West coast have been unattainable for the recent flow-thru's and although some have gone DCA S-80, that domicile is shrinking and likely to continue to do so as is BOS. How much and whether one or both would actually close is unknown. New-hires of the future should plan narrow-body (including any new 110 seater) east of the Mississippi. RSV at AA under the current system is horrible and hideously over-complicated and the current staffing makes it worse. 11 days off in a 30-day period and 12 in a 31 day, BUT they can fly you into 2 of those days and as long as you finish before noon, they don't have to give a full return day. "Long call" is worthless unless you live in domocile (if you can even get it with current staffing as the few RSV's available almost always go on short-call RAP's when not on a trip), as they can call you too late in the day to make it into domocile the next morning (no flights to get you there on-time). Speaking of flights, the "commuter policy" requires 2 AA/AE flights (not just ANY carrier) AND they must cancel. WX or mechanical/loads don't count for a "sorry, I couldn't make it to work" sob story. I can see why many of the recalls are passing. Why walk headlong into this nightmare, when you can do what you're doing now, watch the mess from afar and decide whether or not to return later, when there's a cushion of junior winged matresses below you to feather your return ? I figure at least another 10% to each status (800 or so pilots), just to make the current situation tolerable and that doesn't include rest rule changes or retirement replacement........in that case add 2500. Should a new fleet type arrive AND they keep the S-80's in the interim, I expect them to behind the curve for the forseeable future, but that and a new CBA would at least be progress. |
Originally Posted by tone
(Post 1007265)
Thank you for the thourough response. Gives alot to think about
It's got to get better, so if you're somewhere you don't want to be that's worse, AA can turn out to be a place to be in the future. The worrisome part is, it's all in the company's hands and there track record is poor. Again, IMHO I'd expect to see an announcement of an application window prior to the end of the year (although it may not open before next year). Don't know what the quals will be, but they have to be far less then my 18,000 TT (9000 jet PIC). The REAL bonus for those at the beginning crest of the wave will be potential advancement. Most current AA pilots are over 45 (well over), so those at the beginning of the next wave who will be in their late 20's early 30's will have staggering advancement potential down the line as the old gasbags (myself included) either retire or flop over. |
Right now SFO is the most senior base, followed by DFW. The great majority of recalls are going to either MIA or LGA.
|
As far as the new contract, if it ever comes:eek:, how high in priority are better reserve system and length of service for recalees on the list for APA? JJust wondering if those 2 things are likely to change? I guess only time will tell..
|
Originally Posted by tone
(Post 1007520)
As far as the new contract, if it ever comes:eek:, how high in priority are better reserve system and length of service for recalees on the list for APA? JJust wondering if those 2 things are likely to change? I guess only time will tell..
As far as LOS for furloughees, not sure how high up the list that one is. My understanding is that scope is the #1 priority with pay #2, with complicated and extensive scheduling issues almost complete. I'd doubt the APA would get a fair deal on all the above and hold up the show for furloughee benefits, at least in full, but who knows ? The only certainty IMO, is that there will be compromise in probably every contractual section, but to what degree, we'll have to see. Also in question is Eagle's supposed award of 824 new-hire slots on a 50% basis after the present furloughee first offer is complete and the 250 Eagle flowthroughs with bottom AA numbers is run through (flow not mandatory for them). It seems most of the recent recallee's are going to STL (SLT) S-80, but I'm sure as each class materializes, they'll start scattering to other statuses (EQP/Domicile). Right now, everything's a slow crawl, but at least it's forward in direction. |
The first guy to flow through last year got MIA 777 recently.
|
My friend's Dad was hoping for 767, but got 737 MIA. The commute from ORD to MIA for reserve seems to be a quite different lifestyle than he's used to!
|
Originally Posted by QuagmireGiggity
(Post 1007694)
The first guy to flow through last year got MIA 777 recently.
|
Originally Posted by QuagmireGiggity
(Post 1007694)
The first guy to flow through last year got MIA 777 recently.
|
Originally Posted by 80drvr
(Post 1007734)
That's not reflected in the enhanced 3xp for that bid status, junior MIA 777 FO is in the 5000's which equates to an early 1990's date of hire.
Not sure if he has finished training yet.. that was last month he had just started training. |
Originally Posted by QuagmireGiggity
(Post 1007966)
I spoke to him myself. He was the very first of the 35 that went last summer.
Not sure if he has finished training yet.. that was last month he had just started training. |
Originally Posted by QuagmireGiggity
(Post 1007966)
I spoke to him myself. He was the very first of the 35 that went last summer.
Not sure if he has finished training yet.. that was last month he had just started training. |
Originally Posted by tone
(Post 1007520)
As far as the new contract, if it ever comes:eek:, how high in priority are better reserve system and length of service for recalees on the list for APA? JJust wondering if those 2 things are likely to change? I guess only time will tell..
LOS for furloughees IMHO will not be part of the contract because management wants to minimize the numbers of those returning from furlough. They'd prefer to get a new hire off the street at first year pay rather than reacquire a furloughee at 2nd,3rd, 4th,... year pay who may be bitter about their extended furlough. They are also talking about changes to the pension for new hires which will make costs more predictable for management. I think that after AMR has gone through the list and all furloughees have exhausted their recall rights, AMR may give LOS to the furloughees in exchange for something else outside of contract talks. I'm talking years down the road. That way they withhold any carrot in order to minimize the numbers returning but they will give them a carrot later to get something else. It's less cost for AMR that way and that's how they've done it in the past. |
Originally Posted by EagleDriver
(Post 1008082)
A different reserve system is going to be included because the company and the union both want changes. Whether it will be a better system will depend on which point of view you are coming from, union or management, and how badly management wants a contract signed because the timetable is completely in management's hands.
LOS for furloughees IMHO will not be part of the contract because management wants to minimize the numbers of those returning from furlough. They'd prefer to get a new hire off the street at first year pay rather than reacquire a furloughee at 2nd,3rd, 4th,... year pay who may be bitter about their extended furlough. They are also talking about changes to the pension for new hires which will make costs more predictable for management. I think that after AMR has gone through the list and all furloughees have exhausted their recall rights, AMR may give LOS to the furloughees in exchange for something else outside of contract talks. I'm talking years down the road. That way they withhold any carrot in order to minimize the numbers returning but they will give them a carrot later to get something else. It's less cost for AMR that way and that's how they've done it in the past. Turning my hat around and thinking like a moustache-twisting management bean-counter and also not sure how the furloughee return situation works, but if they pass on the first "run" and then comeback at ANY time regardless of whether there is a new-hire class available for them to claim a spot in that's one thing and there would seem no advantage in strategizing and/or manipulating the rate of furlough return, but if they have to have an actual new-hire class to return, then AA might like to max a lot of hiring off the street grabbing up young cheapies and then slam the door before a lot of topped out furloughee's can claim a slot to return in. They could then close the door to any hiring (and thus any return mechanism for furloughees) for a long (or longer) period of time, increasing the liklihood of any given "expensive" furloughee moving on and building (or maintaining) a career elsewhere. Again, if the second half of the above paragraph doesn't apply, disregard, but I wouldn't put it past a "bottom-line" oriented company like AMR to consider how to minimize employee expense. |
Quagmire - it doesn't appear to add up. Six guys got MIA 777 FO before this summer and 6 guys got it in June. Their employee numbers match the guys around them, which AE guys do not.
Also looked up an AE f/t got that came over before it stopped(2001). He's 1500 numbers too junior to hold 777 FO in MIA. Like I said, it doesn't seem to add up. |
Eaglefly - deferrals can't return at anytime. There has to be recalls, or hiring, for a deferral to return.
|
Originally Posted by Sliceback
(Post 1008139)
Eaglefly - deferrals can't return at anytime. There has to be recalls, or hiring, for a deferral to return.
|
Originally Posted by Sliceback
(Post 1008137)
Quagmire - it doesn't appear to add up. Six guys got MIA 777 FO before this summer and 6 guys got it in June. Their employee numbers match the guys around them, which AE guys do not.
Also looked up an AE f/t got that came over before it stopped(2001). He's 1500 numbers too junior to hold 777 FO in MIA. Like I said, it doesn't seem to add up. |
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 1008147)
My cursory looksee also shows it's not possible.......gotta be 767.
|
Originally Posted by EagleDriver
(Post 1008075)
Are you sure this wasn't the guy who was terminated for being a compulsive liar? The junior FO on the 777 in MIA was hired in 1992 and there were no 777 vacancies filled in MIA on the last run. There is something amiss with his story no matter what he "told" you. If he's in 777 training he is not showing up on the vacancy bid runs. Maybe he's been promoted early and is already in training to be a 777 Check Airman.
|
Originally Posted by QuagmireGiggity
(Post 1008334)
It's VB...
|
Originally Posted by QuagmireGiggity
(Post 1008334)
It's VB...
|
Originally Posted by 80drvr
(Post 1008394)
He's not on the 777 or 767.
|
Originally Posted by quagmiregiggity
(Post 1008414)
that's what he says...
|
Originally Posted by 80drvr
(Post 1008420)
737............
|
Originally Posted by 450knotOffice
(Post 1008376)
Hoo Boy...;)
|
Originally Posted by Sliceback
(Post 1006734)
MIA and LGA have almost always gone junior. W/b FO, CA upgrades, ability to hold a line, etc, etc.
DCA, and BOS, have had their junior moments and times when there's been no movement so if you're not in the base it's almost impossible to get there, which makes anyone moving in for the few opennings pretty senior. Typed in current AA equipment? IMO that would be, at best, a very minor plus on an application. The total resume, IMO, would be more important. comments? please? |
Neo - beats me as to what they want/require.
Best answer I think would help - 2 yr degree, working on the 4 yr degree if you don't have a 4 yr degree. Enroll somwhere... Get as much as you can in your favor, even if it's just for the interview. |
IMHO, they'll be able to be choosy and get everything they want.
Although it's possible they may not REQUIRE a 4-year degree for instance or xxxx amount of part 121 or heavy military jet PIC, those with both are likely to get the earliest interviews and thus class slots and get the seniority at the beginning of the hiring wave however large and and long it may be and advance faster. There's a large number of pilots at numerous regionals who've been captains for 5+ years looking to move to a major, corporate guys tired of that life and having airplanes (and their jobs) sold out from under them without notice and military looking for a good civilian job to suppliment their military retirement. |
Don't think furloghees need to worry about not getting recalled if they exercise their derferral right with the retirement numbers on the horizon. Deferring , to me is a very small and calculated risk IMO.
|
update
Does anyone know how far up the recall list they have gone for the July classes?
|
The July classes have been filled. They are currently filling the August 10th class and have called down to seniority number 9743.
|
Originally Posted by Hoss
(Post 1014244)
... seniority number 9743.
|
Originally Posted by Hoss
(Post 1014244)
The July classes have been filled. They are currently filling the August 10th class and have called down to seniority number 9743.
Any new predictions for us military types retiring this fall (terminal leave starting around mid November/December)???? vr Wrap |
Originally Posted by CE750
(Post 1014246)
out of how many?
The last AA pilot on the list is number 10808. There are, however, an additional 151 Eagle pilots on the bottom of the list. I am not sure if they come over in seniority order or if they will be mixed in with new-hires. |
Originally Posted by Hoss
(Post 1014310)
The last AA pilot on the list is number 10808. There are, however, an additional 151 Eagle pilots on the bottom of the list. I am not sure if they come over in seniority order or if they will be mixed in with new-hires.
|
Originally Posted by CE750
(Post 1014311)
Ok, I had heard that there were 800 or so Eagle flow thru guys, 151 is a whole lot better. So in a nutshell, 1000 more recalls until off the street begins. That works.
9744-10335 former TWA 10336-10808 "native" AA pilots (and 91 Eagle flow-throughs mixed in). 10809-10959 Eagle flow-throughs An 85 year old arbitrator ruled that an additional 824 Eagle pilot will be allowed to flow to AA, but that ruling is being challenged in court and NOT set in stone. |
Originally Posted by Hoss
(Post 1014323)
This is probably more information than anyone wanted, but since I am close to a recall myself, I have been following the numbers closely.
9744-10335 former TWA 10336-10808 "native" AA pilots (and 91 Eagle flow-throughs mixed in). 10809-10959 Eagle flow-throughs An 85 year old arbitrator ruled that an additional 824 Eagle pilot will be allowed to flow to AA, but that ruling is being challenged in court and NOT set in stone. |
Originally Posted by CE750
(Post 1014311)
Ok, I had heard that there were 800 or so Eagle flow thru guys, 151 is a whole lot better. So in a nutshell, 1000 more recalls until off the street begins. That works.
|
Latest DK estimate has the recalls or F/T's being done with in April 2012.
Can you take it to the bank? No. But DK's estimates have been better than anyone else's. "If AA continues to hire/recall at the current rate" etc, etc, is a significant part of DK's estimates. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:46 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands