C Series is already outdate even before it flys....this is why no one, in any great number, is buying it. Outdate by what? A 319 NEO...136 seat aircraft with a equal and even lower casm through most of the C Series envelope.

C-series is having beaucoup engine problems as well. Probably another 3 years or so before anyone could put it on the line.

Supposedly a big APA pow wow today. Anything earth shattering come out of it? Not holding my breath...

No. Breath...

Looking forward to any off the street hiring news....

What is fueling the need for more pilots (besides the usual managment mistakes)? Is it just the new rules? Planned fleet increase? Planned retirements that are still a year or more off? Combination of everything?

Without a massive retirement push or increase in fleet numbers I'm confused:confused: Which usually happens a couple times a day:)


Tried the Netjet thing, lets just say it didn't work out!! ready to get back into 121 world

I thought the new rest rules are into effect starting 2 years after this August, which means August, 2013?? Is it actually sooner? Hope so...Welcome back to 121 when you get the call!

The increase in recalls is a combination of everything:

Company is short manned
NPRM ruling will need more bodies
Big fleet increase (100-120 seaters)
The big ? about over 60s locked in who could bail at a moment's notice
Planned normal age 65 retirements starting in 2013
AA not retiring as many S80s as planned (they want to keep around 200)
New 737 and 773 deliveries

Any ideas of what the plan is for the 773's. Is AA gonna be announcing new Asian routes soon?

Lots of deliveries in the next few years:

I am in the same boat you are......I left Eagle after 6 yrs in the right seat in search of a few more pennies and PIC time. I've been corporate for almost 2 yrs now. I am paitently waiting and praying that a spot at AA would be for me and my family. I only have 600 PIC turbine with 6000+ Total and two type ratings that I am current on and fly regularly.
I know my times won't be "competitive", but i hope they will be attractive enough to get me back to the 121 world.

Good luck to all!

AA required 1000 hrs turbine PIC previously. I'd think 6000 hrs TT, several jet quals, and 1000 hrs turbine PIC would be very competitive.

Good luck.

The (secret) 773 plan is to get to around 20... trickle orders of one every 2 months or so.

Yes, we can expect AA to make a big push into Asia, and also probably the Middle East and South Africa. The new Asia stuff is just starting with LAX-PVG.

B6 merger fuel
 

More fuel for the merger fire:

AMR Is Said to Be in Talks With JetBlue Airways to Widen Booking Agreement - Bloomberg

“It definitely furthers cooperation between them,” Higgins said of the current discussions. “If the benefits to AMR of the JetBlue tie-up are as good as I think they’ll be, I also believe it increases the odds there may be a merger down the road.”

The challenge for American is to first resolve contract talks with its three largest unions, Higgins said. The current labor negotiations date back as far as September 2006, when bargaining began with pilots.

The last paragraph I think is key, my take is no merger until the contracts are signed. I am sure others on here can give updates as to how those talks are preceding.

It will be really interesting to see AA's Middle East strategy. Dump Royal Jordanian and pick up Emirates and the oneworld alliance would blast the competition. Convincing the rest of the alliance members would be the hard part.

Gracias.....I am currently flying two different type rated jets with my company. With the recall rates expected.....we'll see if I can get to that magical 1000hrs by the time they start hiring from the street.

I'm not too far ahead of those times: 7000+, 1500 TPIC, 3 jet types, former regional/fractional/corporate...

I think a big key too will be who is current....

If The Big Meeting yesterday is any indicator, contracts won't be signed for a l-o-n-g time.:mad:

And the band played on...

The requirement for additional pilots won't stop though. The staffing here is worse than when I left Eagle earlier this year. Once the recalls are through (very early next year, by my estimate), AA will have to look at the street.

As I've said before, I think they'll get 10,000 qualified apps in the first few weeks, so they can be picky. Those in the earlier slots will get the better seniority we all covet.

As a bare minimum, I'd think with all the long time regional captains, corporate, other mainline-type pilots and military, 2000 hours 121 or military heavy jet PIC will be easy to get for them.

The 1000 TPIC wasn't necessarily set in stone. I thought it was until I found someone hired without it. I called my cousin who did recruitment/interviews and found it was supposed to be, but it got bent from time to time.

Yeah, not for me, but I only knew the guys doing interviews. Go figure.

Swede - agreed. I thought it was a hard requirement. No so. FO told me he got hired without the PIC time.

No clue what the future mins will be but here are the previous requirements -

3500 civilian or
2000 military multi-engine or
1000 hrs fighter

(basically minimum 4+ yrs experience, typically 6+)

1000 hrs turbine
500 hrs turbine PIC

helo time does NOT count


Oops, my bad. It was 500 turbine PIC, not 1000. RI380, you're in the window based on the previous requirements.

Some strays who have connections always slip through. At least one guy in the past got his "in" mowing the CP's lawn and another knew the then Governor of Texas and got a recommendation from her and had not a single hour of PIC in anything but the lightest of piston twins.

It has and will happen again.

So, in light of all this talk about AA hiring soon, (couldn't come soon enough- I'm on pins and needles waiting!) what are the junior bases right now? I have a pretty good idea of what they are, but would like to hear from some AA guys... Also, what might the junior bases become once the mass exodus of retirements begins? I realize this will all be conjecture and everything is fluid, but was just sorta curious what some opinions are. I have heard that the number of retirements alone at ORD will be huge. I don't know if that is junior or senior right now and I think that MIA and DFW are probably pretty senior, but not sure about LAX, BOS, LGA, etc... and how they all fit in. Thanks for your responses...

Well most of the eagle FT have been going to LGA and MIA, some went to DCA and STL, the last few got 767 positions.

No kidding? MIA, huh? Wouldn't a thought that. LGA, STL and even DCA, those I am not surprised by.... Thanks!

Hopefully typed and current in one of their fleet types might help!

Alot of people have been saying reserve is excruciating. Is it just that you fly every day on it? Do you get the usual 12 guaranteed days off at least? What's the callout? Long call too?

MIA and LGA have almost always gone junior. W/b FO, CA upgrades, ability to hold a line, etc, etc.

DCA, and BOS, have had their junior moments and times when there's been no movement so if you're not in the base it's almost impossible to get there, which makes anyone moving in for the few opennings pretty senior.

Typed in current AA equipment? IMO that would be, at best, a very minor plus on an application. The total resume, IMO, would be more important.

Still can't believe MIA is that junior. I mean, i believe you Sliceback, but am amazed that that is the case. I always assumed that the more senior guys that want to live by the beach bid there, or that live in the Keys maybe... Anyways, not crazy about LGA, DCA or BOS.... But hopefully things will be different once hiring begins.

So being typed in equipment that AA flies carries little weight. What does AA like to see on a resume then? I mean, are they usually pretty picky or if they see that you have the turbine PIC time and have been flying 121 for the last X number of years, is that good enough? Also, I know that AA has never gone for nepotism, at least in the past. Any chance that they may entertain that in the future? I mean, considering the amount of hiring they most likely will have to do, one would think that would be taken into consideration. SWA didn't used to take referrals, but now they do, so wondering if change is on the horizon for AA also... Not that my dad was a pilot for them, but he did turn wrenches for them for 35 years and started with them back in the early 60's. So, i would hope that they might like to see some loyalty, ya know? Thanks again guys....

Does American have a bay area pilot base or did that go away after AirCal? I'm obviously out of touch with American ops.

SFO. Pretty senior, I would guess.

Bases in order of most to least senior: (roughly... not 100% accurate)

DFW
ORD
SFO
LAX
BOS
STL
DCA
LGA
MIA

Last hiring wave, one needed 1000 Turbine PIC and a college degree for starters, as I recall. As far as the nepotism thing goes, I know that no longer applied either in the last wave - tons of pilots hired here with relatives.

Right now the junior aircraft and base assignments for recallees are MIA 737, LGA 737/767/S80 , STL S80/767, DCA S80. All subject to change of course as time goes on - depends on the needs of the company.

Hope this thang gets cranked up and we see new hires soon... Woo-hoo!

Manfred33 - just an opinion but if I was an interviewer (almost was...) I'd put more weight on a kid of a 35 yr employee than a guy currently rated in an a/c AA flies.

If you're resume isn't competitive(who knows what that will be) you're not competitive. If your resume is competitvie being a 35 yr employee's kid, IMO, is a significant plus.

Good luck.

aa73 and sliceback- thanks much for the info, I appreciate it. Very encouraging stuff and getting more and more eager by the day... I have the college degree, have the turbine PIC(over 4,000 hrs) and sounds like with dad having worked there, might(hopefully) be the trifecta. Just can't screw up in the interview when it comes.... Only company I ever really wanted to work for, so my determination is great. Luck always helps though and can never hurt. Thanks guys!

aa - agreed that it's a rough guess.

LGA is about 600 numbers more junior for CA upgrade than MIA - LGA +

MIA is more junior on the 767 at your and my seniority - MIA +

LGA is more junior on the 777 both for FO's and CA's - LGA +

SFO with it's recent manning drawdown will possibly get locked out due to displacements which will change it's relative seniority vs. other bases. Same for DCA and BOS.

In general the bases that are getting flying are the places to be, but you're living that dream already. ;-)

And I guess one could probably expect those bases that are most senior now to become very junior as retirements ramp up, contingent of course on guys already on property that might want to move around with new openings...

Junior bases tend to stay junior, senior bases tend to stay senior.

aa73's list was true decades ago and will probably be true in the future.

NY and MIA have typically been the junior bases, especially for w/b flying. Depending upon your seniority you can be more senior on a w/b in NY or MIA than you can be on a n/b at a more senior base, which is why so many guys commute to NY/MIA.

But it still holds true that most recalls are headed for NY as aa73 said? NY has 3 types while miami only has 737 going there as recalee? Also why are reserve rules so bad at aa? Do u get 12 hard days off?

New hires may be getting DCA but it's still very senior. Mainly because it's shrinking.

If a new fleet type arrives (100-110 seater) that will likely be junior and it could go to any domicile (although I doubt the west coast), but when that arrives and whether it's available for any particular new-hire class wont be known until said new-hire arrives for class. This would open up movement for all fleet types (777 excluded) for new-hire availablility as junior in status and bottom RSV.

As it stands now, DFW and ORD and the West coast have been unattainable for the recent flow-thru's and although some have gone DCA S-80, that domicile is shrinking and likely to continue to do so as is BOS. How much and whether one or both would actually close is unknown. New-hires of the future should plan narrow-body (including any new 110 seater) east of the Mississippi.

RSV at AA under the current system is horrible and hideously over-complicated and the current staffing makes it worse. 11 days off in a 30-day period and 12 in a 31 day, BUT they can fly you into 2 of those days and as long as you finish before noon, they don't have to give a full return day. "Long call" is worthless unless you live in domocile (if you can even get it with current staffing as the few RSV's available almost always go on short-call RAP's when not on a trip), as they can call you too late in the day to make it into domocile the next morning (no flights to get you there on-time). Speaking of flights, the "commuter policy" requires 2 AA/AE flights (not just ANY carrier) AND they must cancel. WX or mechanical/loads don't count for a "sorry, I couldn't make it to work" sob story.

I can see why many of the recalls are passing. Why walk headlong into this nightmare, when you can do what you're doing now, watch the mess from afar and decide whether or not to return later, when there's a cushion of junior winged matresses below you to feather your return ? I figure at least another 10% to each status (800 or so pilots), just to make the current situation tolerable and that doesn't include rest rule changes or retirement replacement........in that case add 2500.

Should a new fleet type arrive AND they keep the S-80's in the interim, I expect them to behind the curve for the forseeable future, but that and a new CBA would at least be progress.