Excuse the 'butting-in' on this conversation....but I thought all the F100s were gone by 2001. Is this a mis-type, or am I mistaken. I'm an A/A 1992 hire, furloughed in Jan of 1994, and now at Delta, via the NWA merger (confused enough???)
chuck

Not sure when the last one left the property, but they had around 75 of them pre-9/11 (when I was there), and got rid of them all post-9/11 during the "shrink to profitability" process.

I didn't realize ORD was that small and senior for you guys. I always thought it was almost as big as DFW for some reason.

I could be way off track here, but if AA shrinks mainline flying in ORD then they can also shrink mainline flying in STL(which I think as a base is identified SLT :confused: ) because per the agreement with PMTWA pilots STL size must be a % of ORD. I don't know if the Supplemental CC agreement is still in effect or not.

Very good chance I'm wrong though.

F-100 TTFN date -

DFW - spring 2004
ORD - fall 2004

Nope, you're not wrong. The size of ORD and DFW dictate the size of STL. STL must always maintain a certain % of TWA CA slots in direct proportion to ORD and DFW.

Regarding the size of ORD: it's a relatively big base, but not as big as DFW. It's still relatively senior... probably the second or third most senior base after DFW.

New hires next spring is way more than just a possibility. If they keep up the 35/40/month and the # of deferrals stays the same, we will be through the entire furlough list by the end of this year. Then about 140 AE pilots flow through, and then new hires would begin.

Cool!!!! : )

Million dollar question......when does AA HR/Pilot recruitment flip the switch and start accepting apps?

Well BEFORE anyone agrees to interview with AA, the pilots applying should form a committee that requires all AA management people to interview to determine their ability to manage an airline.

Oh and they are required to send in a stool sample too. :D

I heard of one guy who had completed phase one and got the hemoccult package to "complete" and send in prior to phase 2. During that time he got a class date from NWA and since he was from MSP, he accepted as that was his first choice.

He glued a piece of corn to the sample stick and mailed that in during the first week of class at NWA and took a picture to boot. I could only shake my head.

I half-heartedly said he should have chosen a nectarine pit instead.

Typical pilot, starting out cheap. Million dollars isn't enough to get the answer. ;)

Who knows...the recent numbers of recalls and acceptance has bumped the magic 'we're done with recalls' date back to May 2012.

Figure out the apply to interview timeline, interview to hire timeline, and if the recall rate stays at 35-40 per month and converts to hiring 35-40 per month applications might be accepted around the new year(+/-). $.02 worth of guessing there.

Keep in mind the first words - "who knows..."

Hopefully it all comes together.

haha.....the 150 gazillion bajillion quazillion dollar question.
‪Doctor evil- One Million Dollars‬‏ - YouTube

This is showing up on the Eagle Side of the house, a friend forwarded me a copy...

1. Every American Eagle pilot who is on the American Eagle pilot seniority list as of October 11, 2011 will be offered a job as an American Airlines pilot in the future.

2. American Eagle pilots hired under this settlement agreement will not be subjected to a pre-employment interview or pre-employment medical examination prior to transferring to American Airlines.

3. American Eagle pilots will be offered a minimum of 35% of every American Airlines new-hire class. In the event that 35% of American Airlines’ new hire class is greater than 25 pilots per month, American Eagle will be required to release at least 25 Eagle pilots per month.

4. If American Eagle loses flying and such loss results in a furlough, American Airlines will increase the percentage of Eagle pilots in their new-hire classes to a minimum of 50%. The meter above will continue to apply.

5. If American Eagle loses flying and such loss might result in a furlough, American Airlines will also attempt to negotiate preferential interviews for American Eagle pilots at the carrier who has successfully bid for the flying that Eagle is losing.

6. This settlement does not impact the existing rights of American Eagle flow-through pilots who currently possess American Airlines pilot seniority numbers, or the rights of the 824 pilot positions awarded as remedy by Arbitrator Nicolau. Those provisions are in place and will remain effective without regard to this settlement agreement.

7. American Eagle has agreed to clarifying contract language regarding the scope of work that American Eagle pilots perform in the event of a divestiture.

This is awesome for the Eagle guys! Congrats to all of you, your careers should be pretty good now!

American to Split Aircraft Order: Report - TheStreet
"... and announce the sale of American Eagle, the newspaper said."

Who is buying American Eagle? How is the sale of Eagle good for AE pilots?

I though this post seemed like BS/a hoax at first but after reading it, it actually makes some sense. AMR wants to divest eagle, needs a contract concession from Eagle regarding scope, so they dangle the carrot of "a flow in the future' to all Eagle pilots and voila, everyones a winner!

Very interesting development. Next week, APA and AA start talking seriously about new hire pension benefits--or lack thereof. Not coincidentally, a lot of junior AA FO's returning from furlough are screaming on the APA website, some even advocating that since a lot of new hires will be AE, APA should give away new hire pensions in return for a large pay raise for FO's furloughed during the past 10 years, mostly because it's viewed that their flying jobs went to AE and caused thousands of furloughs at AA.

Up until now, most felt that new hire pension benefits shouldn't be trifled with. With this announcement many could change their minds. Coincidence?

Yeah, I could definately see that arguement gaining traction. I could also see the APA newer leadership deciding that since AA just got saddled with all of AE's pilots that there is some dealing to be done here between pilot groups to end AMR's ability to whipsaw.

Well since initially 50% of AA newhires could potentially be their Squadron Buds (Eagle's 824 are the other 50%), increasing to 65% "Friends and Family" (Eagle Pilots hired before 10/11 get the other 35%), it would seem that to eliminate the A Fund purely to hurt Eagle Pilots would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

IF on the other hand it is being done to "pull up the ladder, I'm on board" and to heck with the industry and the profession, well, that's ok [/sarcasm].

APA will have to fight their own fights, but could SOMEONE please stop the race to the bottom? I hear DAL perhaps got the ship turning, maybe if we all work together we can actually turn it enough to catch a tailwind?

I’m not advocating any “B” scale here, just reposting what is being said on the APA website in reaction over the AE hiring preferences. APA’s official position is to negotiate a deal that has “equal value” to the current plan. Personally I think the “A” plan is over rated and is nothing but a gun to APA’s head if we were to enter BK. Replacing it with a similar DC plan makes it a little more bullet proof, the problem is figuring out, and then convincing the membership, that the new plan is equal in value to the old one. The fact that the whole Eagle nation is now coming to AA makes that job a little easier.

Secondly, the “A” plan typically only provides about 38 to 40 % of a pilot’s FAE, so replacing it with a 401k match or larger “B” fund contribution is to me a much better deal than having an “A” plan. The “B” plan is the engine that drives an AA pilot’s pension with an 11% company contribution, and no one is advocating that new hires not have that. In fact, incumbent pilots are saying if a new plan were offered to new hires, it should be offered to them as well with an option to opt out of the “A” plan.

In the end, there is no “B” scale for new hires, just a different pension plan, and frankly I think it’s a better plan. One could always argue that it’s a diminished benefit, and maybe so, but it’s a much more secure benefit.

I agree that a well negotiated B Fund/ 401K is a better deal in that it can't be taken away. The whole key here is "well negotiated."

As Paul Harvey used to say, "stand by for news."

2.

If you think AMR can stay out of bankruptcy for the rest of your life, have fun with your A plan. I'll take a 20% B or a healthy 401K match over promised money any day.

I wonder if this will improve the recall acceptance rate ?

What if AMR did not create Eagle. Do these FO's mentioned above think they would not have been furloughed? They still would have got a pink slip, and some other regional would have filled the gap. Sad but true.

It is always the eagle guys fault. Is it that pilot groups fault that AMR created them? Could Eagle pilots or APA have stopped the furlough, or the AA flying going to some regional? NO..

My point is... why are pilots always blaming other pilots and then wanting to punish other pilots. Wake up. Punish those who make the business decisions. The company.

Management wants us to blame and punish one another. We (pilots) are our own worst enemy. Wake up.

That is precisely my point. But there are a lot of folks on this forum and others that are screaming it's the new "B" scale at AA. As I stated in an earlier post, the "A" plan only provides about a third of a pilots retirement, which makes it much smaller than plans that were terminated at DAL and UAL. Furthermore, it's funded to 100%, in fact it was funded to 142% 2 years ago, and 120% last year. AMR has made zero contributions to the plan for almost 3 years. On top of that, if the plan assets return 9% annually, AMR will never have to make a contribution. However, if new hires start coming in, the picture changes, since the plan assets will have to increase proportionally.

In my personal case, should the plan be terminated and the PBGC were to start paying my benefit, I expect my loss to be on the order of 10 to 20% annually. That's a far cry from the 80K to 100K our UAL and DAL brothers have suffered.

The question that must be answered is how big a contribution to a 401K match or "B" plan is needed to replace the "A" plan. My guess is not much, and because of that, there will be the perception that it's a new "B" scale.

Again: I'm only repeating what I've read, not advocating it. In a prefect world we would all get along and go skipping down the sidewalk hand in hand.

Perception is reality, the point is that a great number of our furloughed pilots believe that AE was levered against them, we lost the 7300 floor arbitration, along with a lot of other arbitrations that have adversely effected the AA pilot group. Now all of a sudden a guy with 300 hours of flying time hired between now and October 11, 2011 is guaranteed a job at AA with no interview or physical. Kind of makes us upset a little.

On the upside, I received a text from the union boss in ORD. It said to "welcome them aboard". It left me wondering what's really going on?

I know you are not advocating it. I was just venting. The turn of the industry was is pretty much out of our control. Although there are some things that can be done by us.

Like you said "AE was levered against them". It was the company that negotiated the scope not AE pilots.

Another thing. I know several AA pilots who have children that fly for AE with hope to get to AA like their dad.

It was not my intent to take AA flying. I wanted to get the time I needed so I could work along the side of AA pilots at AA. I worked for AA on the ramp. If AA would have hired me straight to AA as a pilot I would have. That was never an option for anyone and we all know that.

Again, just venting. I am not aiming these comments to you Oldfreightdawg.

Well stated.

10 years of furlough, now this?:mad:

I know the men who have children at Eagle and I wish them well. No hard feelings. See you on the line.

OFD

Not quite: see below,


As of January 1, 2010, the AFN indicates the funded level of the A Plan is 96.44%. This
compares with funded levels of 142% in 2008 and 104% in 2009. This decline in the funded
level can be attributed to the following factors:
· The January 2008 figure was artificially high due to the change in the mandatory
retirement age, accompanied with an increase in the discount rate used to calculate the
present value of the benefits earned under the plan.
· The high funded levels for IRC purposes in 2008 and 2009 meant that no A Plan
contributions were required for those plan years, nor were any made.
· Because additional pension benefits are being earned each year, and because previously
accrued benefits move “one year closer to being paid,” there is a natural tendency for the
funded level to decrease unless contributions are made to the plan. This tendency was
counteracted to some extent in the January 2010 figure by above average asset returns in
2009.
Because the plan was underfunded in 2010, a contribution will be required for the 2010 plan
year. This contribution will not be due until September of 2011. Required contributions for the
2011 plan year will have to be made quarterly, so the first one should have been made last
month.

Ok, you got me, I was going from memory. You forgot a part from another document:

Q How does rate of return help fund the amount of money required in the bucket?

A If the A-Plan were 100% funded today, a 9% rate of return would be sufficient to fully fund the pension

Q What has been the rate of return of the A-Plan for the last several years?

A The rate of return in 2003 was 23%. The rate of return in 2004 was 17%. In the last ten years, the average asset return was 13.3%. These are excellent rates of returns on the funds invested by the A-Plan.

My point is the "A" plan is not some gigantic unfunded mess, to replace it with a DC plan would require small contributions into a 401K.

wow, so let me get this straight.. EVERYONE at eagle prior to Oct, 2011.... i.e., just about everyone at eagle IS ENTITLED to a job at AA? So this pretty much ends the hiring prospects then, eh?

No.

Once they're done with recall attempts for those furloughed (November ?), then about 250 Eagle pilots already with AA numbers are eligible, although some will pass. Plan on late spring/early summer befor they are exhausted and new-hires MAY be needed.

At that point there is supposedly a group of 800 or so at Eagle pilots that get 50% of any new-hire class, so there still should be hiring off the street next summer at AA, but how many is the question. For the next few years, retirements are modest and the new flight/duty regs will not require that many more pilots if a new contract has the additional flying/per pilot it's expected to have. The new agreement that supposedly gives all Eagle pilots a shot at AA (35% max/class though), is so full of holes, it's probably worthless.

I'd expect an application window sometime around Febreuary of next year, but that's a SWAG.

ok.. thanks... /sigh of relief

Is a minimum of 35% of AA classes and that is after the 824. Also if Eagle losses flying and puts pilots on the street then they will bump the numbers to 50% of classes at AA. I do agree the agreement might not be worth more than the paper is written on but we will see.

Satellite bases
 

I heard recently AA had a satellite base in PBI that had lines that all start and end there on the 737. What other cities do you guys have satellite bases in?

Looking at AA growth, it will be many years before the first pilot of this agreement gets their first crack at AA. By then, it may be years of former Eagle pilots being on the street. The first of these pilots wouldn't likely see AA until 2014 or so and Eagle could be furloughing in months depending on the ASA and what the plan is for Eagle.

I'm told the bump from 35% to 50% is not a requirement, but is at AMR's descretion. Not sure if that's true, but regardless, it's going to be slow going for Eagle pilots movement to AA with the exception of those already with AA numbers and the more senior of the 800 group.

MIA is FLL and PBI, LGA/JFK is EWR, DCA is BWI, ORD is MDW (technically) and I think LAX has some too.

Additions -

DCA has IAD.

LAX has SNA, ONT, SAN.

Are these percentages interviews for a job at AA or is the job simply handed to the next person in line? Also, is this any kind of contractual agreement between the unions/airlines or something else all together?