Originally Posted by unitedflyier

The railway labor act is out of date and needs to go. If you want a free market then it needs to be truly free. If not re-regulate.

Originally Posted by unitedflyier

We need to restrict the number of pilots coming into the industry by making it harder to get a license. Higher academic and experience standards. We need to regain public respect for the profession. Then let supply and demand take it's toll. Pay and conditions will improve. If we keep making it easier and accepting lower standards, pay and conditions will continue to fall.

Originally Posted by Flyby1206

Not to get too deep, but does the "value" of a pilot always equal exactly what they negotiate? If a pilot negotiates too little, then they are undervalued and will be taken advantage of by mgmt. That undervalue will be translated into either extra cash in the CEOs pocket, or growth/expansion that wouldnt be possible if the negotiated value was exactly equal to the realised value.

On the other hand, if the pilot negotitates too much for their pay does that mean they are really worth it? Or does that mean they have mgmt in a position where the alternative is an unrecoverable financial position(bankruptcy)? Or indirectly a failure by receding market share because of increased CASM, and watching LCCs move in to take that territory once dominated by the previous carrier?

I really wished we all got paid the same for a respective equip/seat. That would make things a lot easier in regards to determining success and failure of management teams.

Originally Posted by jc23

I’m not denying that other professions have a safety responsibility/role to the public, however, your comparison, in my opinion, is “apples to oranges” as the saying goes. I’m looking at the entire package that goes into becoming a pilot such as education, training, continued evaluation and testing, long-term health effects (physical effects, time zone changes, backside of the clock, etc.), desirable traits and qualities, the list goes on and on. As you already know pilots also undergo a periodic health screening process that has the potential to terminate their career. Comparing a pilots worth to other professions, or vice-versa, is not relevant because the variables (all of them) are different.

-jc23

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR

Those 'extras' are just that. Part of the job.
I understood your post to be comparing professions moving people point A to point B.

I have no idea of the 'extras' that come with being a cruise ship captain for instance. I'm thinking they have a pretty extensive qualification process and possibly even medical exams too for instance.

USMCFLYR

Originally Posted by Flyby1206

Amen brotha- first I would like to see a truly de-regulated industry, but that will never happen. The RLA ammendment will never happen either because the industry and ALPA both take advantage of it to their benefits while leaving us to suffer the consequences.



I believe that is how the law and medical industries run things, but the economic benefits of cheap air travel far outweigh a truly valued supply/demand relationship of pilots and management. The startup business in BUF can grow because of cheap travel and access to venture capital in BOS, SFO, ORD, etc. We subsidize that through depressed wages/benefits at the cost of a few thousand pilots, compared to the booming industries that we indirectly support.

Originally Posted by Shaggy1970

The only way labor will overcome the obstacles set forth by politicians, is if the masses in unions stand up for the profession and have a collective walk off the job day, to bring light to the subject. Imagine what would happen if no airplanes flew for a day. Only and only then, may this job become a profession again. But I digress, cause all of us are so scared by the consequences that the politicians and management have told us about that this would never happen. Furthermore, as long as there are those willing to do the job for pennies on the dollar, this will remain nothing more than just a job. But one can only imagine the possibilities.