Originally Posted by acl65pilot

That is why, the pilots of DAL need to realize that the 717 is the easiest option, but not a option that is totally on the table yet. The second option is the 190, and to do that where DAL can make the business case for it, means thinking outside of traditional means. That may mean bringing some smaller flying here, and it my have to be done in a non-traditional manner. Ala, another corporation owning the jet, but our seniority listed pilots flying the jets along side pilots that are flying the 170/175. It may not be a traditional acquisition that would dictate a SLI, and for that reason, we would need to figure out what is in the best interest of the Delta Pilots with a scenario like that. I am sure DAL wants the training efficiencies one way or another. Also understand that places like SKW get better terms for loans that ma delta does. DAL may be able to sell bonds for the new jets, but the rates would probably be around 8.75%+ for these new jets.

Yes, this is just my mind day dreaming and musing of possibilities today, so take it as such.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

They put the decision off because they don't want a jet with less then 130 seats in a two class and would prefer 140. The C series 300 version is close or there. Nothing from EMB can do that at the moment. That may chance soon. No politics, No contract plans or hopes on the companies part. They want a competing bids for a aircraft in that size. There is nothing today. The picture in that segment will be quite different in 24 months and so will pricing. They don't want the 717. Never have had a interest and don't today. Its a dog in many ways. To small, not that efficient and not enough available. I wont even get into the engine issues.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

They put the decision off because they don't want a jet with less then 130 seats in a two class and would prefer 140. This is the Maddog replacement keep in mind. The C series 300 version is close. Nothing from EMB can do that at the moment. The smaller Airbuses and Boeings are not that efficient That may change soon. No politics, No contract plans or hopes on the companies part. They want competing bids for a aircraft in that size. There is nothing today. The picture in that segment will be quite different in 24 months and so will pricing. They don't want the 717. Never have had a interest and don't today. Its a dog in many ways. To small, not that efficient and not enough available. I wont even get into the engine issues.
They simply don't want to pay almost the same price for a 130 seat jet as the 900's they are getting. This comes from a good source. EMB may have a announcement in the next 12 months that will provide the competition needed in the segment.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

It is my belief that DAL understands that forcing DALPA to sell scope for a short term gain would mean that ALPA would be done for, and they would have to deal with something new and totally unknown. Better to deal with the devil you know. I mean that.

No rep is willing to sell scope, even the ones I do not see eye to eye with on many issues, agree on this point. Period.

The fact is that if they cannot get the 717's they are faced with a dilemma. Buy the C-Series which is expensive but offers better savings. It is a step in the correct direction, but truly a half step to a next gen platform, or the E-Series, which is last gen, has the same type flown at DCI, and would place them at a point where they are forced to acquire the wrong airfame at the wrong time, for a price and or lease terms that really are unacceptable.

A few of the options with the E-Jets are these:
1) Make us sell them so that a airline like CPS, or RJET can get efficiencies with training

2) Bring those smaller e-jets here, gain the efficiencies of training for multiple types work as best as they can if we refuse to budge on scope. (Read: cumbersome process for a ten year fix, and one DAL would love to not mess with unless we unified and forced the issue. Frankly these may be an economic case for the latter, I have been thinking about this one)

3) Wrt to number two, if Embraer or another finance company is willing to give us a lease term of ten years on these jets, where DAL can leave the options open, and acquire the true next gen jet at the correct time frame.

Frankly, by waiting until they did for the 100 seat jet leaves them right in the middle of a few mediocre options. If they could have bought these jets in 2005 and not been in the middle of CH11, the lease terms would have made sense. We rightfully refused to sell the flying, and will rightfully refuse again. That leaves DAL hoping they can get a cheap used jet; the 717, or a great deal on the 190, or be stuck ordering a expensive half step; C-Series, that they will be stuck with well after the debut of the first narrowbody plastic jet.

That is why, the pilots of DAL need to realize that the 717 is the easiest option, but not a option that is totally on the table yet. The second option is the 190, and to do that where DAL can make the business case for it, means thinking outside of traditional means. That may mean bringing some smaller flying here, and it my have to be done in a non-traditional manner. Ala, another corporation owning the jet, but our seniority listed pilots flying the jets along side pilots that are flying the 170/175. It may not be a traditional acquisition that would dictate a SLI, and for that reason, we would need to figure out what is in the best interest of the Delta Pilots with a scenario like that. I am sure DAL wants the training efficiencies one way or another. Also understand that places like SKW get better terms for loans that ma delta does. DAL may be able to sell bonds for the new jets, but the rates would probably be around 8.75%+ for these new jets.

Yes, this is just my mind day dreaming and musing of possibilities today, so take it as such.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

They put the decision off because they don't want a jet with less then 130 seats in a two class and would prefer 140. This is the Maddog replacement keep in mind. The C series 300 version is close. Nothing from EMB can do that at the moment. The smaller Airbuses and Boeings are not that efficient That may change soon. No politics, No contract plans or hopes on the companies part. They want competing bids for a aircraft in that size. There is nothing today. The picture in that segment will be quite different in 24 months and so will pricing. They don't want the 717. Never have had a interest and don't today. Its a dog in many ways. To small, not that efficient and not enough available. I wont even get into the engine issues.
They simply don't want to pay almost the same price for a 130 seat jet as the 900's they are getting. This comes from a good source. EMB may have a announcement in the next 12 months that will provide the competition needed in the segment.

Originally Posted by Superpilot92

They can order all they want but scope is capped (at delta), they're running wild trying to figure out how to keep the gravy train running as the 50 seaters get parked. Gotta keep the shareholders happy....

Originally Posted by sailingfun

They put the decision off because they don't want a jet with less then 130 seats in a two class and would prefer 140. This is the Maddog replacement keep in mind. The C series 300 version is close. Nothing from EMB can do that at the moment. The smaller Airbuses and Boeings are not that efficient That may change soon. No politics, No contract plans or hopes on the companies part. They want competing bids for a aircraft in that size. There is nothing today. The picture in that segment will be quite different in 24 months and so will pricing. They don't want the 717. Never have had a interest and don't today. Its a dog in many ways. To small, not that efficient and not enough available. I wont even get into the engine issues.
They simply don't want to pay almost the same price for a 130 seat jet as the 900's they are getting. This comes from a good source. EMB may have a announcement in the next 12 months that will provide the competition needed in the segment.

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg

Really? Rumor has it a training manager from Airtran came over to Delta to look at setting up a program that could tie it in with the MD88? (which FAA nixed anyway)