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Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1070461)

They get less than us for their DC funding, that's true. Don't their reserves get 14/15 days a month off with a 78 or 79 hour (adjusted for trip) guarantee? If true, that's 30 days a year off more than our reserves get with around 100 extra hours of pay, at significantly higher rates. What do their work rules contain that would outweigh that and make it a net negative?

And remember, it just isn't SWA, its SWA plus reasonable premiums to account for our significantly higher per pilot revenue, plus significant additional premiums for all outsourcing remaining after we significantly reduce it across the board. There are no scope sales, only scope loans. The 9-11 bankruptcy emergency survival contracts imposed under extreme duress across this industry are not some ivy league chortling, brandy sniffing, St Andrews golfing, new world order of the airline industry where we can only achieve small gains here by "paying for it" somewhere else. We can get SWA + reasonable premiums to pay, work rules, retirement and scope, not just pay. That's the point.

As for the "occupants", like any populist uprising, they hit on some veins of truth here and there. But their reasoning and approach and goals are pretty scary. Their "demands" read a lot like the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto. Perhaps the portion of that movement that is hitting on something legitimate can be successfully co-opted by some of the pro freedom and Constitution movements out there. Everything else gets co-opted, so why not this too?

Spot on gloopy!

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 1070599)

I agree 100%. I was just painting ACL into the corner he conveniently avoided by not answering Carls full question. We all know the answer anyway so it was just to point out that we see what's going on.

I keep telling him that I'm not the only one who notices this behavior. Glad you noticed as well.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzpat (Post 1070601)

I'm always suspicious of the causes that George Soros fronts and his fingerprints are all over this. Code Pink and United for Peace and Justice are two of the heaviest hitters in the worldwide protests and they're both funded by Soros and his Open Societies Institute. Thus the complete lack of empathy on my part.

Totally agree buzz.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 1070476)

And the second half of his question, would you vote no to the entire contract because of the two things you mentioned?

He asked me what I did not want at all. I gave him two items without any fanfare.

As to your question. Yes, I would vote no.

If we went to their reserve rules, I would not care if I made more money, it would cost jobs, and probably yours. Having a reserve period that is all SC's that everyone would have to sit in a crash pad for, would be a major no for many of our pilots. I do not commute, but that does not mean that I am willing to hose those that do. Also, I like long call. I want a ultra long call (18-24 hr option) as well. A LC day that I am not used is like a day off. Even in the summer I get at least five of those a month.

I am also not willing to go a FAR max pickup. That would be another instance where we would greatly regret the change right after the ink was dried. Do not give me the song and dance that if I did not want to I would not have to. It would cost pilot job or positions, and both of those matter. You as a pilot want both because one leads to upgrades and the other one provide job protection in the form of more pilots below you making a Delta check.

Do they have a ALV? Do they limit the amount that the company can schedule on a given pilot's line of time? Those are QOL issues.
One thing that many forget it that every fleet here does Flag operations and for that reason, we can get around the 30-7 issues that SWA can't.

If we went backwards in DC contribution, I would vote no. Duh!

I agree with Gloopy that SWA is not my bar, mine is higher. We have a different operation. I highly caution you to not set them as the bar, because if you do this time and get what you think you want, there will be a time in the future where they will be once again used to lower yours.

They are a good competitor, but there are more reasons that just the lack of an Over-water certification for them not going to truly international destinations. It is the same reason that Mike O'Leary has not tried to force his Ryan Air garbage on the North Atlantic. They all know the limits of their product. If they are dumb enough to try it, the product better change because they will have a lot of one time customers.

We all like SWA's pay, and as far as I am concerned, that is a min for pay, not hourly, but W-2, but that does not mean that we need to give up or protections and other bennies for it. We will be a 40 billion dollar a year company by the mid part of this decade. Jeez, talking about giving up something to get something. What you propose if crazy and is a major concession for our pilots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1069985)

Once again, slowplay shows us what a senior level MEC committee member does with his flight pay loss. First he does what he does so often...trying to shut people up by his threats to out people who post on this board. My second point was about to accuse slowplay of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy because of the constant calls for DPA members to get involved and use their numbers to remake the MEC. Then when someone who has no faith in ALPA wants to run and try to fix this broken outfit from within, you belittle him for his effort to run.

But then I realized that slowplay is not hypocritical at all on this because I don't recall any posts from slowplay stating that people should try to affect change in ALPA from within by getting involved. That's the LAST thing a slowplay would want because that cushy MEC job where you're home every night making max pay on full flight pay loss is something you don't ever want changed.

Carl

Man the Current ALPA Co. "Tools" sure don't want anyone in office that may rock the boat.....This guy wants to make badly needed changes and actually serve the Pilots best interests how shocking...

Let's face it, DAL ALPA has a track record of failing to represent their Pilots.. Not defending scope...Failed to process pay grievance's for the NWA Pilots..Weak stance on contract violations etc etc...

It's time to clean house, or on second thought , it might be easier to just move to DPA....:eek: ALPA hasn't done anything for it's Pilots in decades......

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUSYFLYN (Post 1070844)

I have been telling our pilots that if they want to clean house to get to it. Openers will be here before you know it. Doing nothing allows the blame to go on someone else.

DPA seems like the answer to all things, but in reality it just happens to be present at a convenient time. What would be better is if some of these pilots got engaged and changed the course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1070667)

If we went backwards in DC contribution, I would vote no. Duh!

I'm not advocating that we go backwards in DC contribution. But consider this. As a domestic narrowbody Captain last year I made about $130,000 on my W2. The average SWA domestic narrowbody Captain (even reserves like me) made over $230,000.

With our 14% DC contribution, I had about $18,200 contributed by the company into my accounts. With SWA's 9.3% DC match, their average Captain had $21,390 contributed by SWA into his/her account(s). Last time I checked, $21,390 is greater than $18,200. I'm just sayin'...

But I think we should be able to reasonably expect SWA W2 compensation as a bare minimum WITHOUT any reduction to our DC contribution percentage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1070856)

Doing NOTHING? T O'M almost got pitch forked at the PTC meeting. When everyone asked him what HE expected for the new contract, he stated "We don't have the surveys yet." That is called LAME. I guess he doesn't need a raise or better work rules? He, and many other MEC and LEC members seem to be out of touch.

What are we doing about it? The DPA numbers are growing, and will clear the number needed for a vote if the TA isn't acceptable. It had better be good. And you talk about being engaged. Do movie stars actively go out and pursue movie rolls by going door to door, or do they let their agents do it for them? Our CURRENT agent is DALPA, and if they don't go out and get us what we want, it will be time for a new agent. We elect people for results, not to manage our expectations. That PTC meeting left most of us there feeling dejected. That is not what we need at all, especially with our very profitable last year and this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1071005)

Agreed. SWA W2 compensation for our MD88 pilots and 737 pilots, since we essentially do the same job, multiple leg days. Everything else should be higher.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1071005)

Exactly. We should be able to get SWA plus reasonable premiums in all areas not just pay rates. That includes scope. ANY remaining outsourcing after the massive reductions in DCI and more favorable JV's and reigning in the AK code share abuse should result in additional compensation over and above the SWA+ we should be able to get anyway.

And while 6 short calls seems like this awesome limitation, its more than enough wiggle room for scheduling to absolutely own most pilots most of the time. The fact remains that the majority of pilots would benefit far more from 30 days a year off extra and 100 extra hours of pay that the SWA system provides...but then don't forget we get premiums above that in all areas...so we would still have an even better reserve system anyway.