Pineapple Guy

Bill, true, but all they've really done is split out that fee from the regular price of a ticket. It's not like that is extra revenue, it's simply a different way of collecting it. Compare total RASM today, vs before 9/11 and let me know what you find....

Bill Lumberg

How did DL pay down $2 billion in debt last year alone?(was that recorded in any of the profits?) How about $700 million in Q2 this year alone? Paying down debt is good, but the pilots are a debt too, that need to be repaid. 10 fare increases, fuel surcharges intact. When the Q3 numbers come out, you read them, and then let us all know what you find.

I think it is funny how some people try to justify us getting a SMALLER pay raise than is deserved, trying to NOT compare us to other airlines. I think that is called Managing Expectations.

Pineapple Guy

deleted in the interest of harmony.

Bill Lumberg

Here we go again. And you guys need to take a PR class. If you can't see that the airline is making money hand over fist, you must actually be an MEC member. Put downs like yours above do nothing but give the DPA more viability. Keep it up. Typical ALPA nonsense, "You don't know what you are talking about, let us handle it, at the Ritz Carlton..."

galaxy flyer

Not to be technical, but debt is on the balance sheet; profit on the income statement. There's a difference.

GF

Pineapple Guy

Bill, you know what? When you're right, you're right. My last response was condescending and for that I apologize, and I have deleted it. So, let me try again...

First, I am not an MEC member and have never stayed in a Ritz Carlton, but I do know a bit about accounting.

You are correct that DAL received $950m in baggage fees last year, but in reality, much of that was a shift from how they price their tickets. For example, they used to charge $300/ticket. Now they charge $280 plus charge another $25 for a bag. So they make a total of $305 rather than $300. All those numbers are made up, but you get the point. The bag fees are not an additional $950m of "gravy".

As for paying down debt, that is a good thing. Reducing our debt has a positive effect on net income, because it reduces our annual interest payment. That means more net income, which translates into a higher profit sharing check for you and me. It also strengthens our company's position with respect to investment banks, making it likely that we can borrow in the future at lower interest rates. That's good too.

Having said that, this all means nothing, if it doesn't translate into higher pay rates for us. I honestly don't care how strong Delta is financially, other than the fact that the stronger they are, the more leverage we will have to extract contract improvements.

So, I say keep paying down debt, and keep charging those bag fees. Our time will come, and it will be next year. I'll be ready.

sailingfun

The cost for a full restoration contract with the exception of retirement would be about 2 billion dollars a year. That would include a pay raise in the 65 percent range (contract 2k plus inflation and hiring 4000 pilots who would be needed when we transitioned back to the restored work rules.


Here is the important question. If DALPA opens for a full restoration contract and states they will except nothing less and 4 years later we are still working under this POS contract and benched by the NMB is that a victory?
If however DALPA opens for less and is able to get a contract done on or near the amendable date with meaningful gains thats sets a new bar for other airlines but far short of restoration and 4 years later we are negotiating are next contract is that a failure?

DAL73n

The thing we need to remember is there are lots of ways to make more money other than a 50-60% pay raise.

Just a few off the top of my head: (no particular priority)

1. Better rigs (6hrs./calendar day (no more 10:30 3 days),
2. More pay for each day of vacation - 6 hours/day sounds good. Pay and credit for vacation.
3. Better distributed training pay (how about 1 minute of pay for every minute we have to watch the CD)
4. Better training pay for CQ (how about 6 hours/day including the travel day
5. DC plan increasing from 14% to at least 20%.

Those are just a few quickies to make more money with the same or less work. Add that to say a 25% first year and 5% a year after that and you'll see some real nice increases in W2's with LESS work - if you need even more then you can work more. These numbers are just used for illustration purposes.

forgot to bid

The obvious choice as you have presented it would be option B.

Whether it's a victory or a loss with either of the options will be left to interpretation unless every NDA is broken and the people involved sing out as if they were Aretha Franklin.

Am I right? What do I win?

Scoop

Guys,

Lets all take a deep breath and think about this. The DALPA guys say wait for the survey results..... so lets wait for the survey results. It seems pretty obvious to me - either DALPA fights the good fight or they are history - period.

I am not saying they will, or can deliver a certain result. But if it appears that they cave, or try to foist some POS on the Pilot group the days of ALPA representing the Delta Pilot group are numbered. The DPA already has thousands interested and many waiting out the results of this next contract. Make no mistake the DALPA know this too. And so does Delta. A side benefit of the whole DPA drive may be that the company is willing to be a little more flexible than they would otherwise be.

We have all seen the lengths the company will go to in order to keep a FA union off the property. Surely in the back of managements minds is the DPA scenario. I am not saying they will give in to us to keep DPA off property but they know that all eyes are on DALPA - a group that they are very comfortable with. Too comfortable for many.

Scoop