Scope is NOT just about RJ's.

 

Guys, just wait and see what, if anything comes out. The one thing I got from the reps is they are doing their due diligence. They know what this group wants, and they are keeping that in mind in this process.

 

True story. If another scope sale does occur (again, large RJ's can cut/reduce all the way up through mainline DC9, MD, 737, A319/320, 757 flying) nobody should be surprised when there is another ten years of stagnation and the mainline list continues to shrink.

Be careful here folks...this isn't just shooting oneself in the foot...its a double barrel shotgun to the heart of mainline flying. A few more bucks aint gonna bring that back....EVER!

 

You do know that there are a few scope hawks on the MEC? See how they vote and then their reasoning.

 

Show us the spreadsheet or it didn't happen.

 

Don't post much but have to now. Guys, quit throwing numbers out as all is mere conjecture at this point, let the process work and maybe next week we will know, maybe not but anyhow why all the impatience, just wait it out. Get some yard work done or rid the world of some beers or something, anything, stop this nonsense! Don't mean to offend but am getting tired of the I heard this or that. There is no award for being the first to post anything here or having the right numbers by guessing. We just get into the realm of FTB's rate table finding its way back and becoming official.

After all the dust settles, it will have not been worth anyone's effort.

Rant over, c u all next week

 

As Johnso stated in a later post, Scope is more than just RJs. I have to see the overall deal. What is your definition of "more large RJ's?" Is it over the 255 or allowing more 76ers within that 255? I need to know details before I can say yeah or nay.

In my post I said "initial pay raise." To me that means by the amendable date which is 12/31/12. If this is not in the TA and/or the TA gets voted down and we go to regular type negotiations, my number will go up. Time value of money and all.

Denny

 

I'm sure they will be "educated" with some apocalyptic scenario involving Emirates or whatever and "you better gut narrowbody flying more or else they will take all our widebody flying!" etc.

That doesn't make sense for a number of reasons though. First of all the pyramid is way, way bigger at the bottom than it is at the, pinnacle? Is that the right word? Anyway, further gutting the backbone of our jobs to preserve the apex is insane even if the threats are true, and the threats aren't true anyway. If the company could nuke us back to Kitty Hawk and get the dual subsidized ponzi scheme fake royal oil money airlines to do it all, we'd already be there. Yet even if they had that power, there is no way they would give it up for some more 76 seaters. And even if they really really really want more 76 seaters for some "one time opportunity" then in order to have any credibility at all, the company would have to offer iron clad sunsets on what would be a temporary loan of narrowbody scope.

Mind you, I still disagree with that approach, but if there really is some mutually beneficial opportunity that involves more large RJ's, as is being talked about, the company should have no problem aggressively ending all >50 seat DCI flying in a reasonable but very aggressive timeline once phase one of their plan (park 50 seaters) is complete. But they won't. All 255 current plus all future large RJ's will be permanent, and that's how you know they are lying. If we need more 76ers to accelerate the phase out of 50's, and if we were generous enough to loan them our own flying in order to facilitate that, they should have no problem rolling all that flying back into mainline (with whatever planes they want to use) at the current rate of 50 seat lease expirations. Those leases should represent the sunset of DCI in its entirety, although they could probably get away with a limited number of 50 seaters at DCI with tight additional restrictions.

But they won't be interested in that. They will want "just this one more scope sale, guys!" and "if you don't, we will nuke you and give it all to Emirates, but if you do, you will have peace in your time" but the proof will be in the lack of sunsetting for all large jets at DCI. That is how you will know they are lying.

 

You need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

 

I agree ACL, however the process is flawed with all the surveys. We should have known in the beginning (via UNION communications) were the pilot group stands in regards to contract improvements and wants. At this point in time, we do not know what results have been "given". I was very surprised to hear "Sailing" mention that the surveys came in under 30% pay increase. In my eyes, this is suspicious.

I agree Rudder. I think we are our worst enemies. If I were management I would look at these boards. We "spill" out all of our emotions. This "rumor" of 4833 has lowered our expectations to the point that if the TA comes to 10,5,5,5 the pilot group will accept it. We need to hush up in public and to do that our UNION needs to step up and communicate non stop with us. All this quiet and unknown "breeds" loose mouths and rumor speculation. Ideally, these forums should be quiet during negotiations (The Union needs to establish a 24-7 communication tool). The first person who speaks during negotiations is at a loss. <---and All I hear are pilots blabbing.

Fraternally,

TEN

PS> I will Blab my wants--> At least 40% raise, scope tightening, growth, hiring, Less work-more money.