CVG roadshow notes and observations
05-31-2012 | 01:43 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
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We are now being told the "big opportunity" was more than parking 50 seat jets. Hold your shorts, breath deep and say this repeatedly "I will not sacrifice something I want in the future for a short term gain now".
05-31-2012 | 02:09 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
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I don't agree. They would have 70 fewer large RJs.
As I have stated in previous post, I don't trust MGT to follow the intent of our contract as it relates to ratios and I don't believe our union will challenge MGT when they violate the intent. When the ratios go out the window, as I believe they will eventually during the life of this contract, we shrink....DCI grows. 1 event deemed beyond their control and the ratios are toast. Any protections you think we have, will be renegotiated by our union in tough times (no memrat...LOA). Trust and history being the issues that that they are, there is no other way to defend our flying other than to insist we do it. Having said that, I will not vote to outsource any jobs. We need to hold the line on big RJs. They are a direct replacement of mainline flying in this circumstance. I will not vote to make the same mistake others made previously. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst outcome or circumstance.
As I have stated in previous post, I don't trust MGT to follow the intent of our contract as it relates to ratios and I don't believe our union will challenge MGT when they violate the intent. When the ratios go out the window, as I believe they will eventually during the life of this contract, we shrink....DCI grows. 1 event deemed beyond their control and the ratios are toast. Any protections you think we have, will be renegotiated by our union in tough times (no memrat...LOA). Trust and history being the issues that that they are, there is no other way to defend our flying other than to insist we do it. Having said that, I will not vote to outsource any jobs. We need to hold the line on big RJs. They are a direct replacement of mainline flying in this circumstance. I will not vote to make the same mistake others made previously. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst outcome or circumstance.
05-31-2012 | 03:00 PM
#53
Banned
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,007
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From: Space Shuttle PIC
I appreciate you taking the time to post this info.
My initial inclination is still NO.
It seems the MEC is plying the adage "A bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush" with this TA being the bird and the unknown of a rejected TA being the bush.
Why is it a foregone conclusion that IF this TA is rejected that a protracted section 6 process will then unfold. Isn't that just ONE of many possibilities? If MGT was so eager to complete this 7 months early isn't it also feasible that a rejected TA could be tweaked and completed ahead of schedule as well?
I've heard it said that in business, you never accept a first offer and that if you're not willing to say "NO", then you're not really negotiating.
I guess we're at the point in the new car negotiation where the salesman says "I gotta talk to my manager." and we say the same thing and turn to our wife. ha ha.
I spoke with 1 of our LEC reps so far regarding this and he states the negotiating committee HAS said NO several times and walked away and that this was as far as they could get given that, in general, other pilot groups are not helping us gain any leverage (FedEx, UPS, UAL, AMR... forgot to ask about SWA) and that any leverage we have has been played as far MGT is concerned. The only leverage we may have remaining is a strike and that would take years of meditation to reach.
So we really are dealing with an unknown if we reject this TA and what is each of our levels of comfort facing that unknown. It is possible that a protracted section 6 may unfold. It is also possible that the current agreement may be massaged and sweetened a bit.
My initial inclination is still NO.
It seems the MEC is plying the adage "A bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush" with this TA being the bird and the unknown of a rejected TA being the bush.
Why is it a foregone conclusion that IF this TA is rejected that a protracted section 6 process will then unfold. Isn't that just ONE of many possibilities? If MGT was so eager to complete this 7 months early isn't it also feasible that a rejected TA could be tweaked and completed ahead of schedule as well?
I've heard it said that in business, you never accept a first offer and that if you're not willing to say "NO", then you're not really negotiating.
I guess we're at the point in the new car negotiation where the salesman says "I gotta talk to my manager." and we say the same thing and turn to our wife. ha ha.
I spoke with 1 of our LEC reps so far regarding this and he states the negotiating committee HAS said NO several times and walked away and that this was as far as they could get given that, in general, other pilot groups are not helping us gain any leverage (FedEx, UPS, UAL, AMR... forgot to ask about SWA) and that any leverage we have has been played as far MGT is concerned. The only leverage we may have remaining is a strike and that would take years of meditation to reach.
So we really are dealing with an unknown if we reject this TA and what is each of our levels of comfort facing that unknown. It is possible that a protracted section 6 may unfold. It is also possible that the current agreement may be massaged and sweetened a bit.
I love it when people say "never take the first offer from a used car salesman....". Do you think the negotiators took the first actual offer? Don't you think it took a couple days of back and forths? No, you think it was just once?
05-31-2012 | 03:07 PM
#54
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,886
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From: MSP7ERB
I think the entire pilot group holds more clout with the company than just the negotiating committee & MEC. If it's voted down between say 51-60%, the company will know that some tweaking would achieve their goal of near 51%.
05-31-2012 | 03:11 PM
#55
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
The idea of a union is that our Reps speak on our collective behalf.
05-31-2012 | 03:59 PM
#58
Kerbal Rocket Surgeon
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,099
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From: DTW 717A
05-31-2012 | 04:39 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 269
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From: 7ERA
*Most yes pilots I talk to are not happy about it. They are voting yes for fear of the unknown, not because its a deal they want.
05-31-2012 | 05:26 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
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The pilot group will provide the leadership, and the union will continue to represent accordingly. We will each have to guess on management's next move. Based on the precedent of the JCBA, I think there is decent chance of negotiations soon, but to save face the company will only offer a second deal that is worse than the first. Another precedent to lok at will be Southwest vs. Air Tran.
If the company were to cave that obviously, on the verge of follow-on agrrements with DCI carriers, then wide-body manufacturers and/or potential aquisition targets, they would start from a position of low credibility.
