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Old 06-01-2012 | 10:53 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by shiznit
Shorter duration deals makes it easier to negotiate for a sunset.

We will NEVER get everything we want in one fell swoop, even the vaunted C2K gave stuff up (uhh 3.B.6!).

I tell you right now that if we take this TA and in 2015 the company wants to replace the rest of the 50's with 76's I'd consider it, provided the swap is still 2-2.8 for 1. That would put the cap at 371 total off list jets (another 21% reduction), and also cut the available seats by 10%.

If they also swapped the 70's at a 1 for 1.5 ratio it would take the numbers to a permanent 34% airframe reduction and 17% seats available reduction.

The next step would be to tighten the MBH ratios to accurately reflect what the ratios actually were over the 2010-2015 period.

Lastly, you prohibit any next generation powerplant to be operated off-list (i.e. GTF), and DCI dies on the vine.

We CAN have it all, we just can't have it all RIGHT NOW.
Maybe, but what would be better is a limit on duration and hulls now, and in 2015; just like you purported before this came out.
Old 06-01-2012 | 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Maybe, but what would be better is a limit on duration and hulls now, and in 2015; just like you purported before this came out.
Assuming we were even going to let one more large RJ's be outsourced, these limits you suggest would be the only way I would ever consider allowing this to happen.
Old 06-01-2012 | 11:11 AM
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Folks, we have the supporters saying that they would consider raising the number of 76 seaters again in 2015 as a trade off for 50 seaters. Either you see the larger "regional" jets as a greater threat or not because we will see them increase yet again. You have to decide for yourself what is the greatest replacement for mainline jobs. I consider the highly efficient, long range, profitable, dual class "regional" jet to be most likely to take away mainline flying.
Old 06-01-2012 | 11:20 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by DLpilot
Folks, we have the supporters saying that they would consider raising the number of 76 seaters again in 2015 as a trade off for 50 seaters. Either you see the larger "regional" jets as a greater threat or not because we will see them increase yet again. You have to decide for yourself what is the greatest replacement for mainline jobs. I consider the highly efficient, long range, profitable, dual class "regional" jet to be most likely to take away mainline flying.

They are, and long term they may even take back the 717 flying if we are not steadfast in our resolve to make sure that the line does not move in a downtrend in the latter part of this decade. I strongly believe it is a real possibility until an airline has enough vision to put a 100 seat jet on a mainline property.
Old 06-01-2012 | 11:31 AM
  #85  
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SEVENTY more of these further eroding mainline flying and causing stagnation forever?



JUST SAY NO!
Old 06-01-2012 | 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by shiznit
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I don't care what you support. I care about the pilots of Delta Air Lines. I have no "conflict of interest", if it is helpful to Delta Air Lines Pilots then that is all that matters.

The reduction of AS codeshare limits and JV protection are often left out of this discussion and they are an integral part of Section 1 also, but since you are not a stakeholder in the PWA then your concerns have no weight.
Fascinating response. In regard to the bolded above, would you mind telling me why? What's so special about the names on the Delta Air Lines seniority list that you care so deeply about their needs and opinions, and not mine?

They fly Delta passengers. So do I.
They fly an airplane that says Delta on the side. So do I.
They fly across the breadth of the Delta domestic system. So do I.
They are experienced, conscientious pilots. So am I.
They care about the future of Delta Air Lines. So do I.
They want mainline to grow. So do I.
What's in this TA will deeply affect their careers. Mine too.

I've mentioned it before, that I'm senior on the CPS list and have flow rights at Delta, will be there soon after they start hiring, and therefore have a vested interest in the next contract. But I'm fairly certain that doesn't particularly matter to you. The thing is, I'm not completely convinced that the simple matter of my presence on the seniority list would suddenly make you care about what I think or how this contract will affect me, despite your protestations above. If a pilot doesn't care how their contract affects their industry, their profession, the pilots who fly their passengers, or the future pilots of Delta - why would they suddenly care about what, say, a junior DC9B on reserve thinks simply because they wear a double-breasted blazer? I call mulligans.

On the other hand, maybe I'm overreacting and you don't particularly care about whether I'm DCI or Delta, just didn't like my response to your ridiculous assertion that giving away 76 seaters is setting us up to recapture them, and chose my place of employment as an alternate means to avoid the issue.
Old 06-01-2012 | 11:41 AM
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Let these die on the vine?



YES
Old 06-01-2012 | 11:41 AM
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So lets say in the next contract we swap out the rest of the 50 seaters for more 76 seaters. Using a 2 :1 you will end with a new cap of 385 large RJs. What next?
Old 06-01-2012 | 11:44 AM
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Republic Airways flying these with a carvout?



JUST SAY NO!
Old 06-01-2012 | 11:50 AM
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These flown by Delta Pilots at Delta Airlines?





YES!


We need to shift the direction our union wants to take us. If small RJ's are left to die and we don't keep replacing them with larger ones WE, the pilots of Delta Airlines can eventually fly ALL small gauge to large premium wide bodies. That is to say ALL Delta flying is performed by Delta Air lines pilots. End of story.

Last edited by Jack Bauer; 06-01-2012 at 12:16 PM.

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