In general, I would need to see considerable growth in numbers of Delta pilots... at least back to the 12,500 mark that someone else mentioned. I would also need to see the average W2 of a domestic narrowbody pilot rise to the level of the metric set by the average W2 of an SWA pilot. That was my minimum standard. If this TA results in that (which I don't see how it possibly could), then I would happily say I was wrong. To be specific, that means my W2 as an MD-88 Captain would need to be at least $234,436, without flying super excessive numbers of extra days. And, as I am currently only 12 numbers from the bottom of my category, I would consider moving from junior reserve status to solid line holder to be a major improvement. So to sum it up for me personally... a minimum of $234,436 W2 and a consistent line holder as an ATL MD-88/90 Captain. Then you stand a good chance of seeing this:

 

Thanks 88 Driver. I'm not trying to get anyone to say "I'm was wrong." I'm just wondering what needs to happen for guys to say "maybe it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be."

Denny

 

^^^ this ^^^

Plus, DALPA doesn't start signing MOU's and LOA's left and right as soon as the company asks for relief, because "we really need this guys, we have all these shiny new jumbo RJ's that we have to pay for and are under long-term contracts."

Green slips don't go the way of the DoDo because the reserves are flying like crazy.

W-2 is actually equal to SWA in 3 years for an equal amount of work.

The efficiency of our trips is still gonna suck, because we didn't do jack-squat there. No way that will pan out any different.

 

Denny,
Say you are the company or the union, either one, and I am the pilot group. Per TA 2012 you have agreed to take me to dinner at Ruth's Chri... Applebees... Applebees at lunch time and I can only order of the Pick N' Pair menu.

Anyways, you take me to lunch with one caveat, I have to leave my keys in my car and declare to everyone in the restaurant that my keys are in my car and if they take my car, it's theirs. The title is in the glove compartment and I signed it.

Over the course of dinn... lunch, pick n pair lunch, no matter how much I enjoy your company, or how good dinn... lunch is or how much you laud praise over me, I am constantly at risk that someone can drive off with my car and it's gone and I agreed that it was okay.

Now it might not disappear, but the deal is I've got to leave that option open in case someone wants to exercise it.

Now if you ask me, what needs to be done to make me say this is the best lunch ever? Well, please don't mind if I am never comfortable unless you tell me that I can go get my keys and put them back in my pocket, no quid pro quo.

But why in the world would you ever agree to that? Why would you ever take an option away from yourself?

So as I said before this TA, it's Section 1 and Section 2-28, in that order. So 2-28 could turn out to be great, but if 1 is bad then I'm out. If you look at it right now with our domestic fleet at 566 jets, per the PWA the 255 jumbo RJ limit gave us a ratio of 2.2 mainline jets to a DCI jumbo RJ. Per the TA, that can drop to 1.74 and still be in compliance with the 1.56 ratio.

So I believe the TA is leaving us vulnerable now and I think the precedence we are setting of moving caps and dropping limits favorable to us is bad and until we get to put our property back in our pocket I will not in good faith be able to say this TA is great. Nobody refers to POS 96 as great even though the airline expanded like gangbusters.

Sincerely,
FTB

 

One thing we need to all hope we hear is that the MD-90 AND MD-88 fleet will be receiving the cockpit upgrade.

And then the next thing we need is to see it actually happen.

Which would be a tremendous sign given this one particular issue that Bar can elaborate on:

 

The only way would be the "next event" giving us the leverage (that DALPA would actually use) to amend Section 1 and 3. If the current Section 1 continues to its logical limit, it is an unfixable failure. If the current Section 3 continues unchanged, we will have agreed to the concept of a 45% resetting of our baseline. We've agreed to this concept of an entire career's worth of COLA-type raises to get back to the numbers prior to the baseline reset...not counting inflation of course.

That's what it would take for me.

Carl

 

A lot if the risk that we were mentioning could happen beyond the next couple of years. I truly hope you were right and this leads to tremendous growth at mainline. I want nothing nothing but the best for our group.

 

If we have a moderate plus business plan; which this TA now PWA, planned on the concessions with barely be felt and the no voters will appear to be way off base. If the economy and business plan are any less than plan, the fine print will result in pilots being less enthused with the deal.

In the end it does not matter on bit, it's our contract under US law. Learn it, live it love it.

 

I concur with FTB.....relaxation will occur in my nether regions when I see the first few 88's equipped with flat panels....thus becoming the Milineum Falcons of the fleet.... Not a lot to look at but she will have it where it counts....

 

I hate to say it because it sucks, but I believe the pilot group just gave away (by 62%) any moral high ground to demand BK restoration.

The C2K baseline isn't in jeopardy in 2015 because the advancements lost in Ch11 were willingly surrendered yesterday. I hate it, but I'm guessing that's the way a reasonable mediator would see it.