Is the PIC requirement a thing of the past?
08-28-2012, 07:19 AM
#51
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Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Originally Posted by N261ND
But we can't give someone with 7000 hours in the right seat at Comair or Horizon a "shot" right?....Bull$hit.
If you couldn't get your PIC time before fulfilling your obligation in the military, tough. Go to a regional like everyone else and pay your dues. Someone flying for a brand should have a path to that brand before a military pilot, especially one without PIC time.
If you couldn't get your PIC time before fulfilling your obligation in the military, tough. Go to a regional like everyone else and pay your dues. Someone flying for a brand should have a path to that brand before a military pilot, especially one without PIC time.
What does "flying for a brand" have to do with your qualifications to fly for Delta?
Regarding the "pay your dues" comment, I'd place a military flight school and 2000 hours of military flight time over 7000 hours in the right seat of an RJ.
08-28-2012, 07:31 AM
#52
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Posts: 283
Originally Posted by lolwut
... It has to do with the fact that military pilot selection, training, and evaluation is vastly superior to anything on the civilian side. Orders of magnitude better.
You take the best of the best aptitude-wise, give them the best training in the world, and constantly hold them to high standards. Airlines have determined this to be an acceptable substitute for hours in a logbook.
I've flown with military pilots who had less than 1000 hours who could fly circles around essentially any civilian pilot. Anyone who thinks that they're better than a military pilot because they have more hours is greatly mistaken...
You take the best of the best aptitude-wise, give them the best training in the world, and constantly hold them to high standards. Airlines have determined this to be an acceptable substitute for hours in a logbook.
I've flown with military pilots who had less than 1000 hours who could fly circles around essentially any civilian pilot. Anyone who thinks that they're better than a military pilot because they have more hours is greatly mistaken...
08-28-2012, 08:14 AM
#53
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Position: B744 F/O
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by ERJ135
Everyone should have an equal opportunity. Mil/civ doesn't matter. That would be the reason for no PIC requirement at most airlines. I refuse to w*****e out myself, and jeopardize my certs at gojet to get my 1000 pic time. Couldn't control that my company bankrupted itself and lost the upgrade.. 5k in the right seat is worth something.. There are plenty of plenty of quality pilots in the right seat that because of certain circumstances they could not obtain the magic 1000k pic hours..
I believe everyone does have an equal opportunity. Anyone can enlist and attempt to go to pilot training. And you thought of that since you knew the Major's gave preference to ex-mil pilots. My new hire class had 28 pilots in it. Only 3 civilians. I was very proud to be hired alongside of those men and women. As always, minimums are minimums. What people are getting hired with is different.
Tr
08-28-2012, 08:28 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by trlaketige
I believe everyone does have an equal opportunity. Anyone can enlist and attempt to go to pilot training.
Vision being outside what can be waived for example.
Certain injuries to various parts of your body when young that may not have healed properly, such as your back/knee/ACL that can't be waived, etc being others.
And NOPE, not saying those requirements shouldn't be met. But it's not always as cut and dried as "everyone has an equal opportunity, just enlist/try for a commission"
08-28-2012, 09:22 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by xjtguy
Barring things like physical limitations of course.
Vision being outside what can be waived for example.
Certain injuries to various parts of your body when young that may not have healed properly, such as your back/knee/ACL that can't be waived, etc being others.
And NOPE, not saying those requirements shouldn't be met. But it's not always as cut and dried as "everyone has an equal opportunity, just enlist/try for a commission"
Vision being outside what can be waived for example.
Certain injuries to various parts of your body when young that may not have healed properly, such as your back/knee/ACL that can't be waived, etc being others.
And NOPE, not saying those requirements shouldn't be met. But it's not always as cut and dried as "everyone has an equal opportunity, just enlist/try for a commission"
It's equal opportunity, not outcomes. Sometimes you just don't meet the requirements.
08-28-2012, 09:29 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by trlaketige
It's equal opportunity, not outcomes. Sometimes you just don't meet the requirements.
One can have control over their career decisions to get PIC to meet a requirement, although it may take a while.
One doesnt have control over physical limitations that can be considered show stoppers, etc.
And on BOTH cases, those requirements can moving targets based on the ebb and flow demand cycles.
Last edited by xjtguy; 08-28-2012 at 09:43 AM.
08-28-2012, 10:00 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by xjtguy
You missed the point......
One can have control over their career decisions to get PIC to meet a requirement, although it may take a while.
One doesnt have control over physical limitations that can be considered show stoppers, etc.
And on BOTH cases, those requirements can moving targets based on the ebb and flow demand cycles.
One can have control over their career decisions to get PIC to meet a requirement, although it may take a while.
One doesnt have control over physical limitations that can be considered show stoppers, etc.
And on BOTH cases, those requirements can moving targets based on the ebb and flow demand cycles.
No, I think we are discussing different things. My comment was on the perceived unfair advantage (my words) that former military pilots have on hiring. I think that for the company former military pilots are a much more known quantity when compared to their civilian counterparts. As such the company likes to hire them. I come from a civilian background. I have noticed that for the most part former military pilots usually have 1. a good attitude. 2. are very motivated. 3. fit into the structure of the airlines very well. It does matter what is on your resume. So, that's all I got to say about that.
08-28-2012, 10:17 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by trlaketige
No, I think we are discussing different things. My comment was on the perceived unfair advantage (my words) that former military pilots have on hiring. I think that for the company former military pilots are a much more known quantity when compared to their civilian counterparts. As such the company likes to hire them. I come from a civilian background. I have noticed that for the most part former military pilots usually have 1. a good attitude. 2. are very motivated. 3. fit into the structure of the airlines very well. It does matter what is on your resume. So, that's all I got to say about that.
But the term "equal opportunity" is just as I stated, a moving target, subject to change and not always a factual statement. Whether its a formal/published requirement, or and informal/non published competitive qualification.
If anybody is at a disadvantage, it's military helicopter pilots. If they made it through those qualifications/training/filters, combined with the fixed wing training they got, there's NO reason why theyre rotor time SHOULDN'T count. But that's JMO. Can't wait for the flaming ill receive for making such an outrageous statement.
"It is what is" as they say.........
08-28-2012, 10:56 AM
#59
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Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by xjtguy
And I don't, nor have I EVER disagreed with any of that read my previous posts.
But the term "equal opportunity" is just as I stated, a moving target, subject to change and not always a factual statement. Whether its a formal/published requirement, or and informal/non published competitive qualification.
If anybody is at a disadvantage, it's military helicopter pilots. If they made it through those qualifications/training/filters, combined with the fixed wing training they got, there's NO reason why theyre rotor time SHOULDN'T count. But that's JMO. Can't wait for the flaming ill receive for making such an outrageous statement.
"It is what is" as they say.........
But the term "equal opportunity" is just as I stated, a moving target, subject to change and not always a factual statement. Whether its a formal/published requirement, or and informal/non published competitive qualification.
If anybody is at a disadvantage, it's military helicopter pilots. If they made it through those qualifications/training/filters, combined with the fixed wing training they got, there's NO reason why theyre rotor time SHOULDN'T count. But that's JMO. Can't wait for the flaming ill receive for making such an outrageous statement.
"It is what is" as they say.........
08-28-2012, 11:10 AM
#60
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Position: B744 F/O
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by xjtguy
And I don't, nor have I EVER disagreed with any of that read my previous posts.
But the term "equal opportunity" is just as I stated, a moving target, subject to change and not always a factual statement. Whether its a formal/published requirement, or and informal/non published competitive qualification.
If anybody is at a disadvantage, it's military helicopter pilots. If they made it through those qualifications/training/filters, combined with the fixed wing training they got, there's NO reason why theyre rotor time SHOULDN'T count. But that's JMO. Can't wait for the flaming ill receive for making such an outrageous statement.
"It is what is" as they say.........
But the term "equal opportunity" is just as I stated, a moving target, subject to change and not always a factual statement. Whether its a formal/published requirement, or and informal/non published competitive qualification.
If anybody is at a disadvantage, it's military helicopter pilots. If they made it through those qualifications/training/filters, combined with the fixed wing training they got, there's NO reason why theyre rotor time SHOULDN'T count. But that's JMO. Can't wait for the flaming ill receive for making such an outrageous statement.
"It is what is" as they say.........
I guess we disagree. My view is that all are free to enlist and pursue a position in the military as a pilot. That is the equal opportunity. Some medical requirements prevent some applicants from being successful. That is true in the civilian world too. So what?
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