Importance of the PIC for Majors!
05-26-2013, 09:14 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
I don't know the importance of having it to get on, but I can tell you first hand the challenge of not having it...
In 1998 I was a copilot for Chautauqua on the Jetstream. A lot of my colleagues were going to work for a little airline in Florida called AirTran. I had never heard of them, but they just merged with Valujet and were hiring so I sent a résumé. In June of that year I was hired as a DC9 copilot. By October I was furloughed. I was fortunate to be re-hired by CHQ at the bottom of the list (naturally).
In October of 99, still with zero PICT I was hired by USAir. In march of 02 I was furloughed again (along with 1149 others from my airline alone)
Very few airlines were hiring in the wake of 9/11 so competitive qualifications were extremely high. While a lot of my friends were being picked up by Vanguard, Eastwind, ATA, or even Southwest... I was forced to get a job flying copilot on a Dornier prop for PSA.
In Nov 02 PSA said they would have to Furlough, so before that happened I quit and went to Comair.
Now I had been flying as an airline pilot for 8 years and was still bottom guy on the list at a commuter.
In 2004 I took a job with a corporate flight department and finally upgraded in 2007. I had over 8000 hours before I logged my first hour of PIC turbine.
That's a whole lot of lost revenue over the years compared with others in my peer set who DID have the PICT.
Now I could have gone back to USAir and be set for life right now... But in 07 it didn't make sense to do that. They were still in bankruptcy and it didn't look as though they would survive. Made the best decision I could based on the info I had at the time. Unfortunately it was the wrong one.
I wish you luck with your decision. Hopefully it works out better than mine has.
In 1998 I was a copilot for Chautauqua on the Jetstream. A lot of my colleagues were going to work for a little airline in Florida called AirTran. I had never heard of them, but they just merged with Valujet and were hiring so I sent a résumé. In June of that year I was hired as a DC9 copilot. By October I was furloughed. I was fortunate to be re-hired by CHQ at the bottom of the list (naturally).
In October of 99, still with zero PICT I was hired by USAir. In march of 02 I was furloughed again (along with 1149 others from my airline alone)
Very few airlines were hiring in the wake of 9/11 so competitive qualifications were extremely high. While a lot of my friends were being picked up by Vanguard, Eastwind, ATA, or even Southwest... I was forced to get a job flying copilot on a Dornier prop for PSA.
In Nov 02 PSA said they would have to Furlough, so before that happened I quit and went to Comair.
Now I had been flying as an airline pilot for 8 years and was still bottom guy on the list at a commuter.
In 2004 I took a job with a corporate flight department and finally upgraded in 2007. I had over 8000 hours before I logged my first hour of PIC turbine.
That's a whole lot of lost revenue over the years compared with others in my peer set who DID have the PICT.
Now I could have gone back to USAir and be set for life right now... But in 07 it didn't make sense to do that. They were still in bankruptcy and it didn't look as though they would survive. Made the best decision I could based on the info I had at the time. Unfortunately it was the wrong one.
I wish you luck with your decision. Hopefully it works out better than mine has.
TEN
05-26-2013, 09:18 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by xjtguy
And I agree with that. I'm simply saying, you can NEVER oversell the importance of TPIC.
As far as "all the guys I mentioned", sure. Let's take a UAL furlough hired pre 9/11 with NO TPIC. Furloughed, for years. Then recalled, then furloughed AGAIN. Then recalled, AGAIN if they took the S-UAL offer, and now waiting on the S-UAL/SLI recall if they bypassed the S-CAL offer.
It's been nearly 12 years since 9/11. Those in the above group that may have been hired in their 20's with no TPIC and think they hit the jackpot are now in their 30's, or older. And in the last 10+ years never really went ANYWHERE career progression wise.
Like I said, apply anywhere/every where and go if you can as soon as you can. But keep in mind, you simply NEVER KNOW.
As far as "all the guys I mentioned", sure. Let's take a UAL furlough hired pre 9/11 with NO TPIC. Furloughed, for years. Then recalled, then furloughed AGAIN. Then recalled, AGAIN if they took the S-UAL offer, and now waiting on the S-UAL/SLI recall if they bypassed the S-CAL offer.
It's been nearly 12 years since 9/11. Those in the above group that may have been hired in their 20's with no TPIC and think they hit the jackpot are now in their 30's, or older. And in the last 10+ years never really went ANYWHERE career progression wise.
Like I said, apply anywhere/every where and go if you can as soon as you can. But keep in mind, you simply NEVER KNOW.
Of course one should get PIC if the chance comes. But it's not like that's knocking on the doors of most regional FOs today.
05-26-2013, 09:29 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Back in the right
Posts: 118
There's always gonna be discussions about the importance of PIC time. Like someone previously mentioned, those with it think it's important and those without don't think it's important.
I agree with what was previously said in that a lot of getting the call to interview depends on who you know. While many places don't have a TPIC requirement, I have to believe the folks getting hired without it probably know someone like a family member in management which is probably why it's not a requirement.
Also, like someone said before, it's a good insurance policy. When I was a new hire at my current regional, I flew with quite a few furloughed guys who didn't have the TPIC to apply to other more desirable jobs such as Southwest, Fedex, etc. because of the lack of TPIC time. Many of them bypassed recall to get 1000 TPIC before returning. With the supposed impending pilot shortage coming up, it's your gamble to take going some place without TPIC time. If you really feel the likelihood of getting furloughed isn't there, then take the gamble and go if you get called.
Aside from everything else mentioned in previous posts, I will say that I learned more in my first 200 hours as a Captain than my 4000+ hours as an FO. I also found that flying with furloughed guys as my FOs was very enjoyable. I attribute that to the fact that they know what my job is like because they've been there before so they know how to make my job easier. If the opportunity presents itself, take advantage of it because you'll learn a lot and it'll make you a better FO wherever you ultimately end up. Just my .02.
I agree with what was previously said in that a lot of getting the call to interview depends on who you know. While many places don't have a TPIC requirement, I have to believe the folks getting hired without it probably know someone like a family member in management which is probably why it's not a requirement.
Also, like someone said before, it's a good insurance policy. When I was a new hire at my current regional, I flew with quite a few furloughed guys who didn't have the TPIC to apply to other more desirable jobs such as Southwest, Fedex, etc. because of the lack of TPIC time. Many of them bypassed recall to get 1000 TPIC before returning. With the supposed impending pilot shortage coming up, it's your gamble to take going some place without TPIC time. If you really feel the likelihood of getting furloughed isn't there, then take the gamble and go if you get called.
Aside from everything else mentioned in previous posts, I will say that I learned more in my first 200 hours as a Captain than my 4000+ hours as an FO. I also found that flying with furloughed guys as my FOs was very enjoyable. I attribute that to the fact that they know what my job is like because they've been there before so they know how to make my job easier. If the opportunity presents itself, take advantage of it because you'll learn a lot and it'll make you a better FO wherever you ultimately end up. Just my .02.
05-26-2013, 09:51 AM
#24
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,134
Originally Posted by flygirl556
Aside from everything else mentioned in previous posts, I will say that I learned more in my first 200 hours as a Captain than my 4000+ hours as an FO. I also found that flying with furloughed guys as my FOs was very enjoyable. I attribute that to the fact that they know what my job is like because they've been there before so they know how to make my job easier. If the opportunity presents itself, take advantage of it because you'll learn a lot and it'll make you a better FO wherever you ultimately end up. Just my .02.
Also agree on the other point. I've been displaced from the CA's seat twice, as well as flown with furloughed guys as well as fellow displaced CA's. Being displaced (both times) made me a better FO than the precvious times.
A former CA (almost all the time) makes a better FO. Granted, I have flown with FO's that were EXTREMELY sharp and ready to upgrade long ago, I'm just sayin'..........
05-26-2013, 10:19 AM
#25
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
I don't know the importance of having it to get on, but I can tell you first hand the challenge of not having it...
In 1998 I was a copilot for Chautauqua on the Jetstream. A lot of my colleagues were going to work for a little airline in Florida called AirTran. I had never heard of them, but they just merged with Valujet and were hiring so I sent a résumé. In June of that year I was hired as a DC9 copilot. By October I was furloughed. I was fortunate to be re-hired by CHQ at the bottom of the list (naturally).
In October of 99, still with zero PICT I was hired by USAir. In march of 02 I was furloughed again (along with 1149 others from my airline alone)
Very few airlines were hiring in the wake of 9/11 so competitive qualifications were extremely high. While a lot of my friends were being picked up by Vanguard, Eastwind, ATA, or even Southwest... I was forced to get a job flying copilot on a Dornier prop for PSA.
In Nov 02 PSA said they would have to Furlough, so before that happened I quit and went to Comair.
Now I had been flying as an airline pilot for 8 years and was still bottom guy on the list at a commuter.
In 2004 I took a job with a corporate flight department and finally upgraded in 2007. I had over 8000 hours before I logged my first hour of PIC turbine.
That's a whole lot of lost revenue over the years compared with others in my peer set who DID have the PICT.
Now I could have gone back to USAir and be set for life right now... But in 07 it didn't make sense to do that. They were still in bankruptcy and it didn't look as though they would survive. Made the best decision I could based on the info I had at the time. Unfortunately it was the wrong one.
I wish you luck with your decision. Hopefully it works out better than mine has.
In 1998 I was a copilot for Chautauqua on the Jetstream. A lot of my colleagues were going to work for a little airline in Florida called AirTran. I had never heard of them, but they just merged with Valujet and were hiring so I sent a résumé. In June of that year I was hired as a DC9 copilot. By October I was furloughed. I was fortunate to be re-hired by CHQ at the bottom of the list (naturally).
In October of 99, still with zero PICT I was hired by USAir. In march of 02 I was furloughed again (along with 1149 others from my airline alone)
Very few airlines were hiring in the wake of 9/11 so competitive qualifications were extremely high. While a lot of my friends were being picked up by Vanguard, Eastwind, ATA, or even Southwest... I was forced to get a job flying copilot on a Dornier prop for PSA.
In Nov 02 PSA said they would have to Furlough, so before that happened I quit and went to Comair.
Now I had been flying as an airline pilot for 8 years and was still bottom guy on the list at a commuter.
In 2004 I took a job with a corporate flight department and finally upgraded in 2007. I had over 8000 hours before I logged my first hour of PIC turbine.
That's a whole lot of lost revenue over the years compared with others in my peer set who DID have the PICT.
Now I could have gone back to USAir and be set for life right now... But in 07 it didn't make sense to do that. They were still in bankruptcy and it didn't look as though they would survive. Made the best decision I could based on the info I had at the time. Unfortunately it was the wrong one.
I wish you luck with your decision. Hopefully it works out better than mine has.
05-26-2013, 10:23 AM
#26
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by SongMan
I'm trying to make decisions on my regional path here.
How important is it to have 1000 PIC turbine for Majors now?
How important would it be in near future and in few years?
How many pilots do you know who got on with Majors with Zero turbine PIC?
Cheers!
How important is it to have 1000 PIC turbine for Majors now?
How important would it be in near future and in few years?
How many pilots do you know who got on with Majors with Zero turbine PIC?
Cheers!
That said, what are your plans? Sounds like you're going the civilian route and the traditional civilian route now is CFI -> Regoinal Jet FO -> Regional Jet Captain -> Major Airline new hire. Give or take.
05-26-2013, 11:56 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 275
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
I'd bet this could get you out of turbine PIC time.
That said, what are your plans? Sounds like you're going the civilian route and the traditional civilian route now is CFI -> Regoinal Jet FO -> Regional Jet Captain -> Major Airline new hire. Give or take.
That said, what are your plans? Sounds like you're going the civilian route and the traditional civilian route now is CFI -> Regoinal Jet FO -> Regional Jet Captain -> Major Airline new hire. Give or take.
05-26-2013, 01:42 PM
#29
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,796
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Sorry all of that happened.
As for me, now I'm a 40 year old man with about 1500 PIC turbine, a little over 10,000 TT and trying (again) to earn an interview with a legacy.
05-26-2013, 01:47 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: CA
Posts: 1,211
Originally Posted by xjtguy
A former CA (almost all the time) makes a better FO. Granted, I have flown with FO's that were EXTREMELY sharp and ready to upgrade long ago, I'm just sayin'..........
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