The future of the industry
#21
The future of our industry?
One word:
Cabotage.
I have no faith in our Senators and Congressmen, they will sell our industry to the highest bidders, and right now, that's Emirates, Qatar, Etihad and Air China. Our Senators would LOVE to sell them all unlimited access to the US Domestic market, they are already giving them too much access to our International markets, with more to come.
Don't take my word for it, ask anyone from Detroit who used to work for Saturn or Pontiac. Now look at that big Kia plant in Georgia, or at any of the other foreign car factories now in the USA. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, etc.
Where's the US Cruise ship industry these days?
That's where we are heading.
One word:
Cabotage.
I have no faith in our Senators and Congressmen, they will sell our industry to the highest bidders, and right now, that's Emirates, Qatar, Etihad and Air China. Our Senators would LOVE to sell them all unlimited access to the US Domestic market, they are already giving them too much access to our International markets, with more to come.
Don't take my word for it, ask anyone from Detroit who used to work for Saturn or Pontiac. Now look at that big Kia plant in Georgia, or at any of the other foreign car factories now in the USA. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, etc.
Where's the US Cruise ship industry these days?
That's where we are heading.
#22
While I don't disagree with the postings entirely, the auto industry had a few wrinkles. The UAW thought getting the Japanese here would "level" the playing field by raising their costs to UAW levels since the UAW would organize them. It didn't work out that way. The Japanese and the Koreans moved into the South where they found lots of people who would work happily for less than UAW wages and not vote in the union. The companies loved production in the US especially with the weak dollar. The Congress didn't vote on this outcome, but they love it just the same. Jobs in a Congressman's district are all good, no matter the boss.
Look to Europe of all places for the future. Ryan Air, Easy Jet and now Niporwegian ULH maybe the future. Contracted pilots, individually who pay for their training; foreign pilots based in Asia buy flying thru Europe and EK-like operations maybe next. International flying by US and EU lines is going to be severely damaged or killed by these new operators. Look at QF's ongoing disaster and essentially taken over by EK.
I'm not convinced there is enough money to see the foreign lines invade the US domestic market, but if they can kill the profitable international flying, the domestic market will be hard pressed to be profitable. SW, with its contracts and fares, has created an image of inexpensive travel, but also an umbrella for the likes of Spirit, Jet Blue and the like to work under. They can offer loads of cheap seats with many willing to work for less than ALPA wages.
Imagine one of those combining with EK to provide one service, domestic and int'l. Frightening!
GF
Look to Europe of all places for the future. Ryan Air, Easy Jet and now Niporwegian ULH maybe the future. Contracted pilots, individually who pay for their training; foreign pilots based in Asia buy flying thru Europe and EK-like operations maybe next. International flying by US and EU lines is going to be severely damaged or killed by these new operators. Look at QF's ongoing disaster and essentially taken over by EK.
I'm not convinced there is enough money to see the foreign lines invade the US domestic market, but if they can kill the profitable international flying, the domestic market will be hard pressed to be profitable. SW, with its contracts and fares, has created an image of inexpensive travel, but also an umbrella for the likes of Spirit, Jet Blue and the like to work under. They can offer loads of cheap seats with many willing to work for less than ALPA wages.
Imagine one of those combining with EK to provide one service, domestic and int'l. Frightening!
GF
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
From: Jet Pilot
This might be a loaded question and provide many opportunities for the conversation to get hijacked, but where does everyone see the industry in 1, 5, 10, 20 years? This includes what happens with the majors, regionals, pay, QOL, hiring, everything.......ok....have at it....

2: Regionals expanding and hiring.
3: Majors shrinking and furloughing.
4: Regionals shrinking and furloughing.
5: Newly minted pilots saddled with $200K student loan debt and lousy prospects of career advancement/salary progression.
6: Aviation schools talking about upcoming pilot shortages.
7: Current pilots posting on APC about how bad the pay, stability, and QOL is like industry-wide.
8: Prospective pilots ignoring above info and asking questions on APC such as what is the quickest way into the industry.
9: Allegiant opens a pilot domicile in Gary, In.
10: Sky High still airing his complaints on APC.
#24
Four large corporations, led by Carnival, now control most cruise lines:
Cruise ship FAQ Cruise line ownership - Beyondships2
Cruise ship FAQ Cruise line ownership - Beyondships2
#25
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 675
Likes: 20
America has the highest average standard of living in the world, but now, thanks to Free Trade, we have to compete in the "Global Economy". Well, when you are at the top of the Pay/Living standards pyramid, and now you have to compete with the middle and bottom of that pyramid, you only have one direction to go, pay/living standards wise, and it ain't up.
You wonder why American Manufacturing jobs are going overseas, and American Worker's wages have stagnated over the past 10-15 years? That's why.
You wonder why American Manufacturing jobs are going overseas, and American Worker's wages have stagnated over the past 10-15 years? That's why.

#26
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 1
From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
We're willing to welcome back those working at ME carriers with open arms. We need to face it: those folks are a part of the problem as ME carriers push to destroy our livelihood.
Imagine a US autoworker taking a job for a state-owned car manufacturer overseas. The company has unlimited capital and no need to show a profit, attempting to destroy the American auto industry by avoiding numerous US laws and other hurdles.
Do you think the UAW would welcome him back after he was tired of living abroad? Of course not.
Would he improve his chances if he said, "What's the big deal? They're winning because they build a better car than y'all do." He'd be tarred and feathered (if he was lucky).
Why are we pilots unable to see the similarities, and realize we're going to have to play dirty if we want to be here in 20 years.
Last edited by Purple Drank; 07-23-2013 at 12:31 PM.
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Likes: 0
Emirates eyes direct UK-US flights.
Emirates Airline eyes UK to US direct flights - Transport - ArabianBusiness.com
Emirates Airline eyes UK to US direct flights - Transport - ArabianBusiness.com
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,348
Likes: 332
I have no faith in us. We certainly aren't willing to do what we can to shore up our profession.
We're willing to welcome back those working at ME carriers with open arms. We need to face it: those folks are a part of the problem as ME carriers push to destroy our livelihood.
Imagine a US autoworker taking a job for a state-owned car manufacturer overseas. The company has unlimited capital and no need to show a profit, attempting to destroy the American auto industry by avoiding numerous US laws and other hurdles.
Do you think the UAW would welcome him back after he was tired of living abroad? Of course not.
Would he improve his chances if he said, "What's the big deal? They're winning because they build a better car than y'all do." He'd be tarred and feathered (if he was lucky).
Why are we pilots unable to see the similarities, and realize we're going to have to play dirty if we want to be here in 20 years.
We're willing to welcome back those working at ME carriers with open arms. We need to face it: those folks are a part of the problem as ME carriers push to destroy our livelihood.
Imagine a US autoworker taking a job for a state-owned car manufacturer overseas. The company has unlimited capital and no need to show a profit, attempting to destroy the American auto industry by avoiding numerous US laws and other hurdles.
Do you think the UAW would welcome him back after he was tired of living abroad? Of course not.
Would he improve his chances if he said, "What's the big deal? They're winning because they build a better car than y'all do." He'd be tarred and feathered (if he was lucky).
Why are we pilots unable to see the similarities, and realize we're going to have to play dirty if we want to be here in 20 years.
Also in other words, you blacklisting all ex-pat American pilots from getting American pilot jobs here doesn't do a single thing to fix the problem you are complaining about. All it does is restrict a few newhire slots from non-expat pilots. Other than that, nothing is fixed so your solution is dumb.
#29
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Emirates eyes direct UK-US flights.
Emirates Airline eyes UK to US direct flights - Transport - ArabianBusiness.com
Emirates Airline eyes UK to US direct flights - Transport - ArabianBusiness.com
#30
Four large corporations, led by Carnival, now control most cruise lines:
Cruise ship FAQ Cruise line ownership - Beyondships2
Cruise ship FAQ Cruise line ownership - Beyondships2
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