ALPA outsources to gain "max profit"?

They do use AMAS(which ALPA created and then allowed to be purchased by the Dr.'s), and have some outside attorneys on retainer but I think most everything else is in-house.

 

Actually, everyone that knows anything about it would say that United did not somehow change merger policy by themselves.

In 2007, the ALPA President, a current Continental pilot, convened the Merger Policy Review Committee (MPRC). The MPRC consisted of a representative from Continental, United, Delta, Northwest, a regional pilot, and a Canadian. The Chairman was from Fedex. They made substantive changes to the policy although the United representative had the least amount of input as he was involved in preparation for a potential merger with US Air. It should be noted that the current Continental Merger Committee Chairman was the CAL rep to the MPRC.

The MPRC unanimously recommended the proposed changes, including the CAL Merger Committee Chairman. The Executive Council, which included a CAL EVP, approved the proposed changes. The Executive Board, which included the CAL MEC Chairman, unanimously approved the changes.

Therefore to even hint that the United pilots changed merger policy is completely at odds with the facts. The CAL pilot that was the ALPA President presided over the entire process. I can't wait to see how Carl wriggles out of this one. I am sure he will find a way to blame me.

 

Carry over:

My main issue is that the DPA Constitution is flawed IMHO. The DPA is claiming to be a better ALPA. There are major changes to the Constitution that I do not agree with.

Here are my bullet points in support:

• DPA announces dues will be lowered to anywhere between 1%-1.75% depending on where you read the website yet the constitution says they will go up from first year target of 1.65% without MEMRAT to 2.25% (Edit: Carl disagrees on date in spite of DPA declaration to open early) or a minimum of 2% for Section 6. A merger also triggers this. ALPA can't raise dues today without a vote.
• They say that FPL is bad yet they increased FPL for all volunteers including those that don't get FPL like that today over today's limits and pay for it out of the budget since they will take that money value assigned to the contract and spread it amongst the pilots. No, wait, make that the reps as the FPL is going up the money would go to them not the CBA.
• USAPA payed over $7 million in legal fees to SSM&P in less than 4 years after the vote. SSMP&P is charging 50% of their $250 fee, per their contract, with the rest outstanding after certification, yet the DPA has mysteriously paid a number so small that it can only be called incidental costs from the DPA logs. Where's the legal bill?
• There's a second law firm on the DPA books that has charged more to the DPA than SSM&P so far. Who could that be possible?
• New hires, pilots returning from disability and MILOA can't be reps for 2 years, nor could a pilot from a merged airline because of the 2 year good standing rule
• New hires have to pay a maintenance fee their first year. Not about money, right?
• Look through the USAPA LM2 and see the 6 figure employees they have. You want to know why? That's what good help costs today.
• "A contract which is understandable, enforceable and beneficial to both parties and should not exceed 200 pages." Really? Beneficial to the company? An iron clad 200 pages?
• Voting on everything and everybody. Where will you find the time?
• 25% of the pilots in a block to get a resolution passed vs simply majority at an LEC today? Harder to use the pilots will.

The pay issues separated for Carl and Dank who don't like to read:

Cliff notes:

DPA Constitution

3. The dues rate shall be 1.75% upon initial certification by the National Mediation Board. On January 1st of the second full fiscal year following initial certification, the dues rate shall drop annually by 0.25% every year until reaching a minimum dues rate of 1%. Special Circumstance Exception: Six (6) months prior to the amendable date of the Pilot Working Agreement, or upon early opening of negotiations if greater than six (6) months prior to the amendable date, or upon notification of a possible bankruptcy or merger initiated by the Company, the dues rate will temporarily increase by 0.5% until the new contract is ratified, or bankruptcy proceedings or merger integration is complete.

DPA Fiscal Year Jan-Jan

2nd full fiscal year would be Jan 2015, but only if vote happen prior to January 2014 otherwise the second full fiscal year would be 2016.

Increase done via existing constitution as written and without a vote.

To change the constitution requires a 2/3 Executive Board vote AND a simple majority vote of the membership. In order for a member to change it they would have to have a 25% of their block vote on the resolution to pass it vs simple majority today.

 

But you did personalize the debate, as did Kingsley. The DPA is made up of 5,000 plus Delta pilots who seek to use the democratic process sanctioned by the NMB to bring an independent union to Delta. When Kingsley called the DPA a "scourge" and you stated that you agreed with that, it very much personalized the debate. We have no intention of taking the bait and personalizing our views toward ALPA. We simply feel there needs to be a change. We don't think ALPA is a "scourge" thus we don't think ALPA supporters are a "scourge." You can try to detach the "scourge" statement from including the 5,000+ pilots that comprise DPA, but that's just spin and misdirection.

Quoting your own words is not "going after" you Sink. It's just using your own words to clarify your position to everyone. I think it's instructive for people to understand that you think DPA is a "scourge." I think it adds context to your posts going forward.

Carl

 

The people that get to decide what is "lingering" and when this should be "settled" are Delta pilots, not ALPA only supporters who wish to never see a vote by DPA voluntarily quitting before a vote. There will be a vote, and Delta pilots will decide. There will never be a convenient time for a vote in the eyes of some ALPA only supporters because of the claim that "Section 6 is right around the corner"...even back when it was 3 years away.

Most DPA supporters believe the most lasting impact will be bringing an independent union to Delta pilots.

What else is compelling? To me it's compelling that this thread's starter states they are trying to discuss representation for Delta pilots in a civil manner, while agreeing with the MEC chairman that DPA is a "scourge." Context is always compelling.

Carl

 

A significant argument, about a presumed fact. This is interesting. How does a person get independent verification of this?

 

As I was about halfway through your first run-on sentence, I realized none of those issues are show-stoppers. The benefits of in-house, ALPA-free representation far outweigh those fairly minor technicalities for me.

I'm happy to pay 2.25% for a while if every penny is staying within our pilot group.

"Voting on everything" is a negative? "Where will I find the time?" Really? I don't have to drive to my polling station. I can spend 2 minutes setting up online access for the first vote, and 30 seconds to log on and click "yes" or "no" on subsequent votes.

I think you're getting lost in the minutiae.

 

I don't think this is about any individual supporter or proxy. No one is going to "win" a masterdebating contest against Carl.

Now this is informs on the issue of the merger policy, and the presumption it was manipulated by UAL:

Thanks much for the info.

 

No, it's at odds with your personal opinions.

This process occurred in the 2007 time frame. The CAL pilot who was ALPA president at the time didn't know of an impending merger with United because that merger wasn't announced until May 3, 2010. In 2007, United looked at its demographics and merger mania, then decided to successfully push for a change to ALPA merger policy.

Not really a big deal other than to point out that you can't necessarily plan on ALPA merger policy as being a solid plan for your future when it changes depending on the desires of the day.

Now alfaromeo, have you no shame? I wriggle out of nothing. When I'm wrong, I admit it and apologize. Anyone whose lurked on my posts knows that. But those lurkers will also recall the numerous times I've proven you wrong. And your response was always the same: Admit to nothing, go radio silent for a month, then return as if nothing happened with an all new subject.

Carl

 

Your premise of this post as stated in your beginning is to discuss how the DPA constitution is flawed. Then you issue a number of bullet points to "prove" your point. Yet everything in your bullet points that I've bolded in red is not in the DPA constitution.

Now do you understand what I mean when I tell you your posts are too wordy, scattered, and lack focus?

Carl