Incorrect. Here is the definition of a "scourge":

1. a person or thing that causes great trouble or suffering.

synonyms: affliction, bane, curse, plague, menace, evil, misfortune, burden.

I don't recall anyone referring to ALPA with even a tone of the words that define "scourge". The Delta MEC chairman actually used the word "scourge" when describing the DPA.

That's why I reject any characterization that states DPA leadership are the ones that use insults, lies and character assassination as a means of communicating.

Carl

 

That sounds like a pretty good idea to me, being responsive to the membership.

Actually, you haven't proven that it was United that effected this change. And the problem with that argument is that the change was effected the year before the merger was announced. I think most of the industry expected UAL to take UsAirways at the time, a group with even greater longevity.

It sounds to me as though the Nic was the driver for the change. Perhaps it was even a nod to the NW argument, and the arbitrators felt that "longevity" would better address your argument than having to use a plug-and-play method to account for attrition as an equity.

Seems like the changes are good for ALPA pilots, and certainly Delta pilots.

None of which changes the fact that the policy is far more precise than BondMcCaskill.

Again, not the best argument for DPA.

 

If you look at the body of discussions just on APC, by supporters of both sides, and sometimes by people who are "leaders" on either side, you can get some rather colorful language. But do we really need to go there? It's probably fair for KR to address the DPA (the organizers) as a scourge, because he is argue that it does great harm. It's an accurate description of how he views the argument. I see it the same way.

On the other hand, if he thinks going on the offensive on DPA is sufficient, without articulating a better response to the others among us, those that want us to perform better within ALPA, he is kidding himself.

I hope to see more convincing words and actions on his part, in those terms.

 

That's WHY the merger policy changed after the Nic award.

 

Sure it has. Certainly was with our merger.

 

They didn't fight it off Carl. No grievance was filed. There was no dispute. They didn't have to protest. Management ended the codeshare.

 

Except that it was only responsive to those two members. Subsequent mergers had to deal with the removal of Date of Hire as a policy point. That advantaged some pilot groups and disadvantaged others.

In my opinion, ALPA should probably stay out of the merger policy business because there just isn't a fair and equitable general template that fits all situations. I think it's better that arbitrators decide based on the evidence each side brings to buttress their positions of a fair SLI. Of course, the best of all worlds would be the two sides controlling their destinies directly through negotiations and leave arbitrators completely out of it. I know, I know...unrealistic.

There's good discussions on this going on over on those threads. Neither side denies the United MEC affected the change to ALPA merger policy, and it was a very smart tactical move on their part based on United pilots' demographics and their very real concern about impending mergers.

But again, I agree that it's not the driving point of a DPA. If that was the only concern, there's no way I'd consider leaving ALPA. On the other hand, crowing about ALPA merger policy as a great protection that makes staying with ALPA worthwhile, has little merit as well.

Carl

 

Wow. You agree with Kingsley that the current movement for an independent union at Delta is a scourge.

That is such an extremist position on your part that I really have no desire to continue this discussion with you. Your agenda now is clear and one that you've tried to hide...until now.

For the record, myself and nobody I know considers ALPA a scourge. I think that those kind of hyperbolic words (condoned by you) actually serves to produce more DPA members...so the floor is yours and J29's etc.

Over and out.

Carl

 

Management ended both of the disputes as a result of a grievance. It's right there in the posts and their links.

Carl

 

Then we will have to agree to disagree then, because some of the crap I hear from your so called leadership over on the other site are exactly what you describe. The insults, BLATANT lies and character assassination are all there....