Definition of irony:
Jack talking to Carl about FPL "ninjas"...

 

I've long since given my opinion and judgement on what padre2992 PM'd you. That was despicable and just thugish. The only reason he's not banned is because that was on PM.

My point was that we will almost certainly see similar behavior from the DPA higher ups at some point were they to be elected in. It's just how things are, and changing the union won't change that.

Thank you for answering directly.

 

And the reason this is absolutely true is that the higher ups at the DPA are the higher ups from ALPA.

Assuming DPA could be certified, they wouldn't be parachuting any new people in, would they? You'd get recycled ALPA people, who are in opposition to the current ALPA people. Say hello to the new union guy, same as the old union guy.

One of my problems with DPA is that I find it to be a marriage of convenience between the NW MEC/admin people who have been edged out through the merger, and the former DAL MEC/Admin guys that lost to the current bunch. For whatever reason, some people that participate in unions drift from simply looking at the best interests of the group, and start getting into the politics of the thing. Alliances, deals, horse-trading: it's all in there. I'm not excusing anyone when I say this: it cuts both ways. It's downright disgusting to the line pilot, but when you think about it, the closest look you get, whether it's into unions, or departments like Flight Ops, the more powerful the stench of politics.

 

And I really do think it's good that we're discussing this here, vs. all over the L&G. Too bad that a lot of the thread is wasted on trying to personalize this, and having various people get into depicting one another's character (that cuts both ways also).

If all this is, is about people, and not ideas, that would be a pretty strong confirmation of what I argued above: this is really a nuclear option, in terms of winning a power struggle.

 

Sink,
In general, I agree with what you posted. However, was America better or worse off under self rule or under the crown?

 

A great question Scambo. I think the answer is this:

The DPA argument is based on accepting the premise that King Lee represents the crown. In fact, our situation doesn't depend at all on our allegiance to him. We only depend on ourselves, and our situation is based on our leverage, our tactics (and our company's financial health). King Lee doesn't negotiate our contracts, or impose terms.

I would argue that you are giving me a false choice. We have self-rule. This is an argument about who gets to be governor.

 

FAIL. UPS and Delta are not in the same industry. We may fly similar airplanes, but that is irrelevant. Do you really think Taylor Swift's limo driver makes the same as the guy who drives prom dates around in his own limo? Just because they both drive black limos doesn't mean they both have the same pay/benefits package.

 

Interesting choice of kings because the name fits two people.

It may well be a false choice. Governor isn't even a good analogy.

In either case, generally those of us who stick around this board are well informed. Generally, as well, there are no fence sitters among us. Well, maybe there are in a way. In my case, I see the benefit of an independent union...clearly. However, my perspective is stylized and a little too pure. The reality would almost certainly be different.

Within Alpa, there are differences among the mainline carriers. The most recent being the unical merger. United brought their A game and continental played really sloppy. There wasn't wholesale slaughter, but as a really smart friend of mine once said, "some people need to be under the rule of dictators."

I hope we are not under the rule of a dictator.

 

Papa golf, you are the one who brought it up as a comparison. If you want to compare ups to c2k, they must be in the same industry...it is only logical.

The fail is either on you or we are in the same industry.

 

We've been over this before. That's because the Pinnacle agreeement had nothing to do with the Delta MEC.