Delta Representation Discussion
09-09-2013 | 10:20 AM
#281
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 9
From: 3fidy
Heyas Sink,
The DPA supporters I run into are the single issue, "angry voter" mindset. When I press them how they will get involved to make things better, it is universally the "that's what I pay dues for, to get other people to do things".
I have yet to run into anyone who is involved at more then a "send in a card" level that gave me any sort of "warm and fuzzies". When you peel back their talking points with some facts, they retrench into the "angry voter" routine.
I've often been fairly critical on how things have been run, but I'm smart enough to pour pee out of a boot without reading the directions on the heel, and I also know what is NOT the solution.
Elections in 3 LECs are coming up. Time to get involved. In fact, I would posit that now is the best time to run if you want to be involved, and some of those LEC positions carry a LOT of heft (take a look at the roll call votes the NYC FO rep has).
Ordinary people CAN and DO get elected. Look at the non-descript dude that won the FO rep spot in DTW, and he has (or had) the most roll call votes in DALPA. I've read some of what he's written, even back on the old NWA Webboard, and he was certainly no fan of any of the MECs going as far back as I can remember, so no political connections, and as best I can tell, he never held any big time committee spots. Just sort of walked off the street, wrote a couple of decent letters, and there you go...a big seat at the table.
If that dude can do it, ANYONE can do it.
Nu
The DPA supporters I run into are the single issue, "angry voter" mindset. When I press them how they will get involved to make things better, it is universally the "that's what I pay dues for, to get other people to do things".
I have yet to run into anyone who is involved at more then a "send in a card" level that gave me any sort of "warm and fuzzies". When you peel back their talking points with some facts, they retrench into the "angry voter" routine.
I've often been fairly critical on how things have been run, but I'm smart enough to pour pee out of a boot without reading the directions on the heel, and I also know what is NOT the solution.
Elections in 3 LECs are coming up. Time to get involved. In fact, I would posit that now is the best time to run if you want to be involved, and some of those LEC positions carry a LOT of heft (take a look at the roll call votes the NYC FO rep has).
Ordinary people CAN and DO get elected. Look at the non-descript dude that won the FO rep spot in DTW, and he has (or had) the most roll call votes in DALPA. I've read some of what he's written, even back on the old NWA Webboard, and he was certainly no fan of any of the MECs going as far back as I can remember, so no political connections, and as best I can tell, he never held any big time committee spots. Just sort of walked off the street, wrote a couple of decent letters, and there you go...a big seat at the table.
If that dude can do it, ANYONE can do it.
Nu
09-09-2013 | 10:25 AM
#282
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
09-09-2013 | 10:32 AM
#283
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,107
Likes: 103
Agreed.
The question someone needs to ask themselves is "are you willing to BET that any certification drive will be successful (which it hasn't during the past what, 4 years now?) OR do you get involved now and try to get change going?".
I'll say it again: "Time Value of Leadership". Get involved and get small changes made NOW which add up in the end. Versus something that will probably never happen, and now 5 years down the road you have bubkis and you're still ****ed off.
Personally, I'd jump in the fray, so I'd at least have some street cred and bragging rights that I TRIED.
Nu
The question someone needs to ask themselves is "are you willing to BET that any certification drive will be successful (which it hasn't during the past what, 4 years now?) OR do you get involved now and try to get change going?".
I'll say it again: "Time Value of Leadership". Get involved and get small changes made NOW which add up in the end. Versus something that will probably never happen, and now 5 years down the road you have bubkis and you're still ****ed off.
Personally, I'd jump in the fray, so I'd at least have some street cred and bragging rights that I TRIED.
Nu
09-09-2013 | 10:44 AM
#284
Looking for a laugh
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 0
Looking at it this way though, Sec 1 addresses flows, but my understanding is that the Bridge Agreement isn't a flow, but a guaranteed interview only. Does Sec 1 address interviews? If not, should it?
As such Delta management has the right to decide for themselves who they want to interview. If they changed the minimum requirement to be only transgendered individuals, and signed an agreement with LGBT, that is their prerogative, no?. Or maybe they decided to institue an Ab Initio program with some flight school. The union doesn't control hiring standards. Or am I wrong as usual?
I'm not trying to beat a dead donkey here, but a lot of DPA supporters I talk to bring up the signing of the Bridge Agreement. I'm just trying to understand their anger about it as I don't see that we as a group really have a leg to stand on concerning this one issue.
09-09-2013 | 10:44 AM
#285
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Moral of the story, SWAPA has never sold scope for pay. In their last Section 6, they actually PAID to tighten their scope.
Carl
09-09-2013 | 10:56 AM
#286
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Heyas Sink,
The DPA supporters I run into are the single issue, "angry voter" mindset. When I press them how they will get involved to make things better, it is universally the "that's what I pay dues for, to get other people to do things".
I have yet to run into anyone who is involved at more then a "send in a card" level that gave me any sort of "warm and fuzzies". When you peel back their talking points with some facts, they retrench into the "angry voter" routine.
I've often been fairly critical on how things have been run, but I'm smart enough to pour pee out of a boot without reading the directions on the heel, and I also know what is NOT the solution.
Elections in 3 LECs are coming up. Time to get involved. In fact, I would posit that now is the best time to run if you want to be involved, and some of those LEC positions carry a LOT of heft (take a look at the roll call votes the NYC FO rep has).
Ordinary people CAN and DO get elected. Look at the non-descript dude that won the FO rep spot in DTW, and he has (or had) the most roll call votes in DALPA. I've read some of what he's written, even back on the old NWA Webboard, and he was certainly no fan of any of the MECs going as far back as I can remember, so no political connections, and as best I can tell, he never held any big time committee spots. Just sort of walked off the street, wrote a couple of decent letters, and there you go...a big seat at the table.
If that dude can do it, ANYONE can do it.
Nu
The DPA supporters I run into are the single issue, "angry voter" mindset. When I press them how they will get involved to make things better, it is universally the "that's what I pay dues for, to get other people to do things".
I have yet to run into anyone who is involved at more then a "send in a card" level that gave me any sort of "warm and fuzzies". When you peel back their talking points with some facts, they retrench into the "angry voter" routine.
I've often been fairly critical on how things have been run, but I'm smart enough to pour pee out of a boot without reading the directions on the heel, and I also know what is NOT the solution.
Elections in 3 LECs are coming up. Time to get involved. In fact, I would posit that now is the best time to run if you want to be involved, and some of those LEC positions carry a LOT of heft (take a look at the roll call votes the NYC FO rep has).
Ordinary people CAN and DO get elected. Look at the non-descript dude that won the FO rep spot in DTW, and he has (or had) the most roll call votes in DALPA. I've read some of what he's written, even back on the old NWA Webboard, and he was certainly no fan of any of the MECs going as far back as I can remember, so no political connections, and as best I can tell, he never held any big time committee spots. Just sort of walked off the street, wrote a couple of decent letters, and there you go...a big seat at the table.
If that dude can do it, ANYONE can do it.
Nu
The reps weren't consulted at all prior to the TA (that is now our PWA) being sent to the reps for a ratification vote. You'll have no say when the MEC leadership decides to give up some NRT slots and not require management to shut down the JV. And you'll likely have no say when the MEC leadership allows management a pass when our Atlantic JV is proven to be badly out of balance against Delta pilots.
Understand, I'm not knocking you reps. I like a great many of you. Its just that you have almost no power to affect real change in the top-down structure known as ALPA.
Carl
09-09-2013 | 11:01 AM
#287
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Thanks for the reply.
Ultimately, all I want is us to bring our A game. I think imposing this power struggle, framed as a representation discussion, is completely overshadowing the discussion about how to best bring our A game, as a unified group.
This should be all about getting the best people in place, to effect the most intelligent actions. If this was a very tough debate about philosophies, and the future of constructive engagement, I think it would be very healthy.
Ultimately, all I want is us to bring our A game. I think imposing this power struggle, framed as a representation discussion, is completely overshadowing the discussion about how to best bring our A game, as a unified group.
This should be all about getting the best people in place, to effect the most intelligent actions. If this was a very tough debate about philosophies, and the future of constructive engagement, I think it would be very healthy.
I don't like NDAs. Yet, I suspect C12 had something to do with our S&P 500 listing...the way it was negotiated, the rates, the whole thing...partly due to NDAs. Does that mean we brought our A game?
I don't know if there is a quid in the future for us due to the S&P listing, I hope there is, but here is the thing: We don't know.
If there is a positive strategic direction Richard wants to take this company in, why not share it rather than piecemeal it. Same with the union, share it. NDAs keep people from getting information they need to get on board with the direction (if there is one) the union is going in. Instead we are left rudderless to fill in the blanks as we see fit.
09-09-2013 | 11:02 AM
#288
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Sorry about that long run-on sentence.
Carl
09-09-2013 | 11:15 AM
#289
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
ALPA national is too invested in their attempt to spread the wealth of the majors to other airlines in the hopes of making them all ALPA members someday. I've seen no evidence whatsoever of that changing at the national level, and no evidence from a single rep to change it. Not that you as a rep has any power to do that in the first place.
When the interim FO rep election took place in New York, I think it was mentioned that one of the candidates was listed in some capacity as a DPA volunteer. I never verified it, but if I could, it would comfort me in my opinion that the genesis of this thing is partly a power struggle within the MEC.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess.
Carl
09-09-2013 | 11:34 AM
#290
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Likes: 0
Sink,
I don't like NDAs. Yet, I suspect C12 had something to do with our S&P 500 listing...the way it was negotiated, the rates, the whole thing...partly due to NDAs. Does that mean we brought our A game?
I don't know if there is a quid in the future for us due to the S&P listing, I hope there is, but here is the thing: We don't know.
If there is a positive strategic direction Richard wants to take this company in, why not share it rather than piecemeal it. Same with the union, share it. NDAs keep people from getting information they need to get on board with the direction (if there is one) the union is going in. Instead we are left rudderless to fill in the blanks as we see fit.
I don't like NDAs. Yet, I suspect C12 had something to do with our S&P 500 listing...the way it was negotiated, the rates, the whole thing...partly due to NDAs. Does that mean we brought our A game?
I don't know if there is a quid in the future for us due to the S&P listing, I hope there is, but here is the thing: We don't know.
If there is a positive strategic direction Richard wants to take this company in, why not share it rather than piecemeal it. Same with the union, share it. NDAs keep people from getting information they need to get on board with the direction (if there is one) the union is going in. Instead we are left rudderless to fill in the blanks as we see fit.
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