Delta Representation Discussion
09-09-2013 | 05:42 PM
#311
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
09-09-2013 | 05:51 PM
#312
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From: 747-400 Captain
As Carl said if I don't like the Constitution then I should submit a resolution to my block rep to have it changed.
It takes 25% of my entire block (250 pilots!) to pass a resolution and then because it's a Constitution change it requires a Board of Directors vote by 2/3 of the Board to then submit the change to the Executive Board and then it is published for the membership thirty days prior to approval by the executive board to allow for member comment and then a another Simple Majority Vote of the membership is required to pass it. There's some confusion on whether I would also have to have it pass the simple majority before it went to the BoD because the Constitution doesn't address that.
I only need a simple majority of pilots at an LEC meeting to submit a resolution today. Why the convoluted evolution for the DPA?
It takes 25% of my entire block (250 pilots!) to pass a resolution and then because it's a Constitution change it requires a Board of Directors vote by 2/3 of the Board to then submit the change to the Executive Board and then it is published for the membership thirty days prior to approval by the executive board to allow for member comment and then a another Simple Majority Vote of the membership is required to pass it. There's some confusion on whether I would also have to have it pass the simple majority before it went to the BoD because the Constitution doesn't address that.
I only need a simple majority of pilots at an LEC meeting to submit a resolution today. Why the convoluted evolution for the DPA?
Besides, the process you're describing above is the DPA process for changing the DPA constitution, and you're comparing that process to the ALPA process of submitting a resolution at the LEC level. At ALPA, do you only need a simple majority of pilots at an LEC meeting to change the ALPA constitution?
Carl
09-09-2013 | 06:28 PM
#313
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Thanks for clarifying. So you don't need 25% of the block to pass a resolution that is not designed to change the constitution. What do you need for a simple resolution, then, simple majority at a meeting?
09-09-2013 | 06:29 PM
#314
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Exactly as I stated: "You ALPA folks" would have called a response like that from me a typical Carl deflection. You're clearly an ALPA folk only interested in what can be done to support your side of the partisan divide. Not that I think anyone needed any further evidence of that.
09-10-2013 | 02:05 AM
#315
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It still doesn't make sense to this Delta pilot that it was OK for the company to guarantee flying that exists as a Scope exception to another group. In theory, all flying that is permitted now, could be negotiated, and folded back in. Except for Pinnacle.
Add to that the fact we're being held to the "meet-and-confer" (albeit toothless) standard, and it doesn't seem in this case that Pinnacle was.
Not the strongest point for ALPA.
Add to that the fact we're being held to the "meet-and-confer" (albeit toothless) standard, and it doesn't seem in this case that Pinnacle was.
Not the strongest point for ALPA.
As much as I respect Bucking's knowledge in many of these areas, he's yet to show me how the Pinnacle agreement is any different than the agreements signed in previous years with ASA, Comair, Chataqua, Skywest etc.
09-10-2013 | 02:09 AM
#316
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I didn't bring it up. I was simply correcting another of Carl's misstatements.
09-10-2013 | 02:15 AM
#317
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That's incorrect. Most SWA captains make more than I make. People often make this mistake because they don't know what's actually in the SWAPA contract. Many, many SWA captains make well north of $300,000 per year. I know two personally who've shown me their W-2's and explained how they got there. Add to that the fact that every SWA captain makes the top money (as opposed to Delta where top pay only applies to 34 out of 722 airplanes) and anyone can clearly see SWA pilots make a great deal more than Delta pilots.
That era is still alive and well PG. SWA pilots make much, much more than Delta pilots.
Carl
That era is still alive and well PG. SWA pilots make much, much more than Delta pilots.
Carl
09-10-2013 | 02:17 AM
#318
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Keep saying it - but I don't see any facts to back it up. Hourly rates way below C2k, any way you slice it.
09-10-2013 | 02:26 AM
#319
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Pineapple Guy,
Contract 2000 was the first agreement following the changes at the 1998 Board of Director's meeting which gutted and bifurcated ALPA's Merger and Alter Ego Policies. Prior to these changes ALPA's response to an alter ego was to force a merger. After these changes management was permitted to own and operate an alter ego. ALPA, in exchange, received "bargaining credits" for permitted flying in Section 1. Technically, while Contract 2000 might have reduced the numbers, it very likely was the birth of monetizing scope for credit. In plain terms, it does appear to be the origination of the market in the trading of job protection provisions.
Contract 2000 was the first agreement following the changes at the 1998 Board of Director's meeting which gutted and bifurcated ALPA's Merger and Alter Ego Policies. Prior to these changes ALPA's response to an alter ego was to force a merger. After these changes management was permitted to own and operate an alter ego. ALPA, in exchange, received "bargaining credits" for permitted flying in Section 1. Technically, while Contract 2000 might have reduced the numbers, it very likely was the birth of monetizing scope for credit. In plain terms, it does appear to be the origination of the market in the trading of job protection provisions.
09-10-2013 | 02:32 AM
#320
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There's nothing anybody could have done to stop Lee from doing what he did. He's got the right to sign any pilot document he wishes on behalf of any pilot group. Once he's done that, he can't be stopped and it then becomes legal and binding on behalf of ALPA pilots. I'm just a line guy, but what I would do if DPA had been elected at that time would be to grieve the section that required Delta to do anything regarding Pinnacle as the current section 1 of the (ALPA negotiated Delta PWA) already describes flow ups and hiring priorities. The Pinnacle Bridge Agreement adds to that group of hirable pilots in a way that does not currently appear in our contract. That would be the basis of the grievance.
Why should they? They aren't taking away any of our flying; they aren't limiting any of our flying (as we did to them with C2012). They are simply playing in the sandbox that we've permitted them to play in. BTW, C2012 made drastic reductions in the size of their sandbox; something you and others fail to acknowledge.[/QUOTE]
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