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Old 09-08-2013 | 11:10 AM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Nobody at DPA has ever treated me or anyone I know of this way. ALPA has.

Carl
Way to not answer the question.
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Old 09-08-2013 | 11:10 AM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Nobody at DPA has ever treated me or anyone I know of this way. ALPA has.

Carl
Wow, what a leap of logic. So a brand new entity with no track record and no legal responsibility has never treated you bad? It's not surprising that a union that's been around since 1931 has had it's fair share of mistakes. With that logic I should be on my 50th wife cause the new flight attendant I just flew with never made me sleep on the couch........
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Old 09-08-2013 | 11:12 AM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Which was also 100% correct and is why USAPA has been successful at keeping an arbitrated seniority list off the property. Which is the only reason USAPA has ever existed in the first place
Carl, they didn't need a separate union to prevent the implementation of the Nic award. All they had to do is refuse to sign a JCBA -- which is exactly what they've done to date.
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Old 09-08-2013 | 11:15 AM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Carl, they didn't need a separate union to prevent the implementation of the Nic award. All they had to do is refuse to sign a JCBA -- which is exactly what they've done to date.
This leads directly to where I differed with Kingsley's usage of the USAPA example over and over again.

Had USAPA stayed ALPA, logically, they still would have been the tremendous, miserable failure that they are today. Right?
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Old 09-08-2013 | 11:15 AM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Instead, independents like IPA and SWAPA have set the standard for industry leading contracts.
Carl, you've been around way too long to make false statements like that. IPA and SWAPA have NEVER set any standard for industry leading contracts. In fact, neither has ever signed an industry leading contract. They signed mediocre contracts, that only looked good, when the rest of us took three steps backwards.
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Old 09-08-2013 | 11:17 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
This leads directly to where I differed with Kingsley's usage of the USAPA example over and over again.

Had USAPA stayed ALPA, logically, they still would have been the tremendous, miserable failure that they are today. Right?
Yes, they would. Which just goes to prove, contrary to what so many people write, ALPA National has very little ability to influence the decisions (good or bad) of its member airline MECs. Each MEC charts its own course, with ALPA providing technical and negotiating expertise.
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Old 09-08-2013 | 11:21 AM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Carl, you've been around way too long to make false statements like that. IPA and SWAPA have NEVER set any standard for industry leading contracts. In fact, neither has ever signed an industry leading contract. They signed mediocre contracts, that only looked good, when the rest of us took three steps backwards.
While your statement regarding the IPA is not true, I would agree we within ALPA have taken a lot of 3 steps backward.
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Old 09-08-2013 | 11:24 AM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
negotiating expertise.
ha ha, good one!
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Old 09-08-2013 | 11:27 AM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Yes, they would. Which just goes to prove, contrary to what so many people write, ALPA National has very little ability to influence the decisions (good or bad) of its member airline MECs. Each MEC charts its own course, with ALPA providing technical and negotiating expertise.
So, why do ALPA types keep using the example of USAPA as why we shouldn't leave? They would be a bumbling group of idiots no matter what. It's a very poor comparison.
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Old 09-08-2013 | 11:52 AM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
So, why do ALPA types keep using the example of USAPA as why we shouldn't leave? They would be a bumbling group of idiots no matter what. It's a very poor comparison.
Because, based on everything I've seen from the most vocal DPA supporters, they appear to be of similar ilk.
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