Delta Representation Discussion
09-09-2013 | 04:52 AM
#251
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From: right for a long, long time
Southwest Airlines said Thursday the board of its pilots' union has voted to send a new tentative contract agreement to membership for a ratification vote. The low-cost carrier's pilots in June narrowly rejected a previous deal.
Pilots at Southwest in June voted down a tentative deal reached in January that would have given them pay raises in the midst of a slump in the airline industry.
There had also been grumbling about Southwest's plans to sell travel to Canada and Mexico on partner airlines, which many pilots consider a threat to their jobs.
New Southwest pilots' contract up for vote - USATODAY.com
Pilots at Southwest in June voted down a tentative deal reached in January that would have given them pay raises in the midst of a slump in the airline industry.
There had also been grumbling about Southwest's plans to sell travel to Canada and Mexico on partner airlines, which many pilots consider a threat to their jobs.
New Southwest pilots' contract up for vote - USATODAY.com
How did those last two years work out? ...it's an interesting idea.
What is the current progress and length of negotiations? ...expecting DL pilots may have a slower go of it in 2015.
09-09-2013 | 04:55 AM
#252
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No, Carl they don't. Pull out your calculator. Top SWAPA guys don't make anywhere near as much as you do, and when you include our 14% DC, mid level guys don't make as much as our mid level guys, despite their 30 years of profits. For a short period of time, their payrates exceeded ours, but that era is over.
09-09-2013 | 04:57 AM
#253
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Second, UPS's top pay rate applies to every aircraft they operate. At Delta, the top pay rate applies to 34 aircraft out of 720 aircraft. Plus UPS has better productivity rules, an 81 hour reserve guarantee, etc.
With this overall picture, UPS pilots (independently represented) are paid far greater than Delta pilots (ALPA represented).
As shown above, your claim is wrong and very misleading on many levels.
Carl
With this overall picture, UPS pilots (independently represented) are paid far greater than Delta pilots (ALPA represented).
As shown above, your claim is wrong and very misleading on many levels.
Carl
09-09-2013 | 04:59 AM
#254
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FAIL. That urban legend has already been debunked on here several times. DALPA didn't sell scope in C2K. As a reminder, the Delta PWA permitted unlimited 70 seaters in 1990, and had substantial restrictions in C2K.
09-09-2013 | 05:04 AM
#255
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Add to that the fact we're being held to the "meet-and-confer" (albeit toothless) standard, and it doesn't seem in this case that Pinnacle was.
Not the strongest point for ALPA.
09-09-2013 | 05:09 AM
#256
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Interesting choice of kings because the name fits two people.
It may well be a false choice. Governor isn't even a good analogy.
In either case, generally those of us who stick around this board are well informed. Generally, as well, there are no fence sitters among us. Well, maybe there are in a way. In my case, I see the benefit of an independent union...clearly. However, my perspective is stylized and a little too pure. The reality would almost certainly be different.
Within Alpa, there are differences among the mainline carriers. The most recent being the unical merger. United brought their A game and continental played really sloppy. There wasn't wholesale slaughter, but as a really smart friend of mine once said, "some people need to be under the rule of dictators."
I hope we are not under the rule of a dictator.
It may well be a false choice. Governor isn't even a good analogy.
In either case, generally those of us who stick around this board are well informed. Generally, as well, there are no fence sitters among us. Well, maybe there are in a way. In my case, I see the benefit of an independent union...clearly. However, my perspective is stylized and a little too pure. The reality would almost certainly be different.
Within Alpa, there are differences among the mainline carriers. The most recent being the unical merger. United brought their A game and continental played really sloppy. There wasn't wholesale slaughter, but as a really smart friend of mine once said, "some people need to be under the rule of dictators."
I hope we are not under the rule of a dictator.
Ultimately, all I want is us to bring our A game. I think imposing this power struggle, framed as a representation discussion, is completely overshadowing the discussion about how to best bring our A game, as a unified group.
This should be all about getting the best people in place, to effect the most intelligent actions. If this was a very tough debate about philosophies, and the future of constructive engagement, I think it would be very healthy.
09-09-2013 | 05:25 AM
#257
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
09-09-2013 | 05:31 AM
#258
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A great question Scambo. I think the answer is this:
The DPA argument is based on accepting the premise that King Lee represents the crown. In fact, our situation doesn't depend at all on our allegiance to him. We only depend on ourselves, and our situation is based on our leverage, our tactics (and our company's financial health). King Lee doesn't negotiate our contracts, or impose terms.
The DPA argument is based on accepting the premise that King Lee represents the crown. In fact, our situation doesn't depend at all on our allegiance to him. We only depend on ourselves, and our situation is based on our leverage, our tactics (and our company's financial health). King Lee doesn't negotiate our contracts, or impose terms.
Carl
09-09-2013 | 05:43 AM
#259
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Carl
09-09-2013 | 05:46 AM
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Our M88 guys under C2K made more, adjusted for inflation, than UPS 747 guys do today, despite the fact that UPS's finances are much better than ours were, even back then. They're no industry leader. You need to make up better "facts", if you want to win this argument, Carl.
UPS pilots (represented by an independent union) are and have been one of our industry's leaders for quite some time.
Carl
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