Are you sure this isn't what you meant to say?

Carl

 

People confuse labor law and contract law all the time. In fact ALPA has done a great deal to non/mis-educate the pilot group on what their legal rights actually are, especially during bankruptcy.(see TWA pilots vs ALPA) Delta may have had unlimited whatever in 1990 prior to later contracts, but labor law would have prevented Delta from operating those planes without Delta seniority list pilots. With contract law, it would have been okay, but with labor law, not okay. To get around labor law, section 1 has to have a very specific set of instructions on what management is permitted to do. In fact, the most iron clad section 1 scope agreement that can ever be achieved by a pilot group is actually a blank section 1.

 

Asked and answered. It's a little premature to get into specifics, since we don't know who would run the union under a hypothetical certification. In considering your post, I went to the DPA site. Here is what they said under the committee chart (Delta Pilots Association - Committee Chart): "...Several members have also recently pointed out that we need more people to become the "Face of DPA" if we are to continue growing. Many members have been serving behind the scenes as well as openly since our inception. It is time to honor this dedication and move together toward our goal of certification..."

So, we can only guess as to who is involved "behind the scenes".

We just know that the people in question would be Delta pilots. That group comes in two varieties: those with experience in union posts, and those without. We can only assume (hope, really) that DPA would want to use people "with" for some of the functions.

The obvious point: under a hypothetical certification, you're going to see familiar faces. It's that simple.

 

100% Correct.

Carl

 

PG;

SWA guys have posted their w-2 earnings here before. You are just trying to discredit Carl. IIRC, it was fairly easy for a SWA mid seniority FO to break 200K and a mid seniority Capt to break 300K. I have no idea if this has dried up with the absorbtion of AirTran.

Its a fairly small minority of DAL FOs that break $200K and many Capts don't either.

 

I don't think that SWAPA guys alone swing this discussion either way, since there isn't a strong correlation between being independent and having greater success. I do have a SWA friend who is thinking right now about coming back from furlough, and he's sweating the possibility of getting the 717, as he has calculated it would yield 25K/yr less. If I go to the 717, I would probably make 25K less. After talking to him, it sounds like we're sort of in the ballpark. He made more last year, but worked more, and I leave a lot on the table every year, for a higher QOL.

Not really a scientific method, and I'm happy to stipulate that SWAPA, the in-house union to a company that founded it's business on "falling in love with employees and taking customers along for the ride", does well.

Can't we get some consensus around here on the basics? SWA does well. They have great Scope, which hasn't been tested all that much.

 

Heyas Sink,

The DPA supporters I run into are the single issue, "angry voter" mindset. When I press them how they will get involved to make things better, it is universally the "that's what I pay dues for, to get other people to do things".

I have yet to run into anyone who is involved at more then a "send in a card" level that gave me any sort of "warm and fuzzies". When you peel back their talking points with some facts, they retrench into the "angry voter" routine.

I've often been fairly critical on how things have been run, but I'm smart enough to pour pee out of a boot without reading the directions on the heel, and I also know what is NOT the solution.

Elections in 3 LECs are coming up. Time to get involved. In fact, I would posit that now is the best time to run if you want to be involved, and some of those LEC positions carry a LOT of heft (take a look at the roll call votes the NYC FO rep has).

Ordinary people CAN and DO get elected. Look at the non-descript dude that won the FO rep spot in DTW, and he has (or had) the most roll call votes in DALPA. I've read some of what he's written, even back on the old NWA Webboard, and he was certainly no fan of any of the MECs going as far back as I can remember, so no political connections, and as best I can tell, he never held any big time committee spots. Just sort of walked off the street, wrote a couple of decent letters, and there you go...a big seat at the table.

If that dude can do it, ANYONE can do it.

Nu

 

I agree, SWA does well and they have great scope that they haven't been willing to sell.

 

Actually, you didn't answer it all because this was your original post on the topic:

Notice that you even italicized the word "are" in your claim that higher ups at the DPA are the higher ups from ALPA. From what I know, that is patently untrue.

But with this follow on post of yours, it appears you acknowledge that we don't know whether the background of DPA leadership includes former or current "higher ups" at DALPA:

Now this I can agree with, but certainly not your initial claim that the higher ups at the DPA are the higher ups from ALPA.

Carl

 

Hey, Nu.

I've been saying all along that this tangent is depriving us of some meaningful movement in terms of real issues, and real people. Elections are a great place to start.

I don't think your message about numbers was totally lost on the DPA. When the interim FO rep election took place in New York, I think it was mentioned that one of the candidates was listed in some capacity as a DPA volunteer. I never verified it, but if I could, it would comfort me in my opinion that the genesis of this thing is partly a power struggle within the MEC.