View Poll Results: Would AA's lower 1st yr pay keep you away?
Yes, I'd go to DL/UA before AA to make more my first year
73
42.94%
No, all 3 airlines are now close enough in careers that it wouldn't matter
97
57.06%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll
Would AA's lower 1st year pay keep you away?
11-14-2013 | 06:29 PM
#31
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Yes, chock me up as anti-AA. I think I have good reasons for my bias.
But, attempting to put that aside, there's no denying that the TWA/AA combo was a mess, and now you're jumping right back into a similar briar patch with USA East/West. Good luck.
APA is dysfunctional. Period.
AA management, and yes I know it's all going to change soon (hopefully for the better, but does anybody really know?), has been abysmal. The company has not competed in any sense of the word. Even if the new management team is The Second Coming, they are starting from a competitive position far behind the others.
I know the poll question was about 1st year pay. I think all the majors (as was pointed out by somebody else) have similarly rosy prospects in terms of potential seniority gains due to the currently ancient pilot corps. I'm trying to point out that the work environment ought to be considered (beyond pay and projected seniority), and on that score I think AA has a lot to be desired.
I appreciate others' ability to view everything in a positive light, but in the case of AA I think that kind of viewpoint ignores recent history.
But, attempting to put that aside, there's no denying that the TWA/AA combo was a mess, and now you're jumping right back into a similar briar patch with USA East/West. Good luck.
APA is dysfunctional. Period.
AA management, and yes I know it's all going to change soon (hopefully for the better, but does anybody really know?), has been abysmal. The company has not competed in any sense of the word. Even if the new management team is The Second Coming, they are starting from a competitive position far behind the others.
I know the poll question was about 1st year pay. I think all the majors (as was pointed out by somebody else) have similarly rosy prospects in terms of potential seniority gains due to the currently ancient pilot corps. I'm trying to point out that the work environment ought to be considered (beyond pay and projected seniority), and on that score I think AA has a lot to be desired.
I appreciate others' ability to view everything in a positive light, but in the case of AA I think that kind of viewpoint ignores recent history.
I certainly hope that's the outcome, and I have reason to believe it's very possible. But you can't look at AA's recent history and use that to judge the future, simply because AA's recent history still falls under the old management/pilot hate-fest. Looking forward, it's basically a clean slate.
Mink, I hope if you decide to come back, that this place will bear no resemblance to the train wreck you left.
11-14-2013 | 06:45 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
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Delta didn't exactly have the world's most motivated pilots back during their BK, but boy that changed when they realized they had decent new management. If we get the same (and I'm not saying for sure Parker & Co are all that), I think we could see the same situation at AA: a previously bitter pilot force does an about-face and rises to the occasion under inspiring management willing to go out, compete, and come out ahead.
BTW, the Delta pilots, in general, are downright eager to do a good job. We were hired that way: people who have it in their DNA to earn every badge available to the troop. BK was an anomaly, but overall, as long as we're treated anywhere close to fairly, we want to do well. The theory is that we always had a company that had our back, and we wanted to do what we could, to make the reverse true.
There aren't that many airlines where this is true. Maybe [curse be onto them] SWA.
11-15-2013 | 02:57 AM
#33
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Sink r8: just curious on your opinion of Doug Parker and why he couldn't turn a new AA into a powerhouse, a la Richard Anderson.
I understand that Parker was limited in what he could do with USAir, given their size and niche status. Now that he has huge assets available to him, and a newly lean carrier eager to grow with employees eager to kick out the old guard and bring in new blood - do you not agree he has a great opportunity? Is he capable of pulling a Delta?
Deep down, all pilot groups are essentially the same: they WANT to do a great job. It's the daily grind of inept management that stifles this desire. If Parker shows himself to be a leader, I believe we'll see the pilots of AA rise to the occasion.
I understand that Parker was limited in what he could do with USAir, given their size and niche status. Now that he has huge assets available to him, and a newly lean carrier eager to grow with employees eager to kick out the old guard and bring in new blood - do you not agree he has a great opportunity? Is he capable of pulling a Delta?
Deep down, all pilot groups are essentially the same: they WANT to do a great job. It's the daily grind of inept management that stifles this desire. If Parker shows himself to be a leader, I believe we'll see the pilots of AA rise to the occasion.
11-15-2013 | 04:20 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,258
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Sink r8: just curious on your opinion of Doug Parker and why he couldn't turn a new AA into a powerhouse, a la Richard Anderson.
I understand that Parker was limited in what he could do with USAir, given their size and niche status. Now that he has huge assets available to him, and a newly lean carrier eager to grow with employees eager to kick out the old guard and bring in new blood - do you not agree he has a great opportunity? Is he capable of pulling a Delta?
Deep down, all pilot groups are essentially the same: they WANT to do a great job. It's the daily grind of inept management that stifles this desire. If Parker shows himself to be a leader, I believe we'll see the pilots of AA rise to the occasion.
I understand that Parker was limited in what he could do with USAir, given their size and niche status. Now that he has huge assets available to him, and a newly lean carrier eager to grow with employees eager to kick out the old guard and bring in new blood - do you not agree he has a great opportunity? Is he capable of pulling a Delta?
Deep down, all pilot groups are essentially the same: they WANT to do a great job. It's the daily grind of inept management that stifles this desire. If Parker shows himself to be a leader, I believe we'll see the pilots of AA rise to the occasion.
To the original question... Since I can't take the poll via iPhone... Yes first year pay would be a concern of mine, but not a deal breaker. If I had the choice (God willing) I'd go with Delta because of their management currently, and United would be a close 2nd due to bases. AA I wouldn't turn down by any means, but I'd like to see what happens with this merger first.
11-15-2013 | 06:37 AM
#35
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Nothing succeeds like success. I think Parker has a window of opportunity that he needs to jump through quickly to win over employees, aggressively take on competitors, and impress customers. If he stumbles out of the gate, then I think the bitterness that exists at both USA and AA will multiply - another set of broken "promises", same circus/different clowns, etc., and he'll have an uphill battle getting employees on his side vs. the usual AA/USA model of them being viewed The Enemy.
Best of luck, everybody. I guess we'll find out all of this soon enough.
11-15-2013 | 08:25 AM
#37
La Familia Delta
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,467
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From: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
First year pay is awful,hope that gets fixed soon.
11-16-2013 | 05:39 PM
#38
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Window seat
11-16-2013 | 10:47 PM
#40
just past ETP
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 517
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From: Cruise Captain
According to APC there are 14,759 pilots at AA/US combined. Based on this chart (assuming zero growth, hiring only for attrition and no early retirements), 35% of the pilots are retiring in the next 10 years.
So, one hired today would be at the 65% percentile roughly a decade from now. Assuming one upgrades at the 50% mark...you're still not making Captain within 10 years.
*I'm sure there will be some growth, medicals and early retirees...
So, one hired today would be at the 65% percentile roughly a decade from now. Assuming one upgrades at the 50% mark...you're still not making Captain within 10 years.
*I'm sure there will be some growth, medicals and early retirees...
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