DAL 88 Driver

T, you're trying to make it way more complicated than it is. It's really very simple. DALPA has made it abundantly clear that they have no intention of pursuing anything like restoration. Therefore, DALPA's objective does not match up with mine. In my personal life, if I pay for a product or service, and that product or service doesn't live up to my expectations, then I try a different product or service to fulfill that need. It's just a business decision.

In my opinion, DALPA has done so much damage to our prospects of restoration (by spending the past 8 years acting as if we don't expect anything of the sort and setting a very damaging precedent) that I'm not sure if ANYONE can achieve it going forward. But I would like to at least TRY. The only other alternative at this point is DPA. I'm willing to give it a try because I am certain DALPA isn't going to get the job done. I don't think that's a "wishy washy excuse." I think it's just logic, based on my assessment of the situation. Your mileage may vary.

TheManager

Why bless your heart Johnso. It appears you don't quite understand their motivations at USAPA. They really don't care about the money. It is secondary. It's seniority and the grab for it that motivates them.

You see Johnso, they feel they win either way.

If they can successfully avoid implementing The Nic, they win the ultimate war.

If they can stall it for years, like they have, they can capture the massive attrition they have on the east side solely for east pilots. The more east pilots they put in an empty east captain seat is also a big win for them.

For the easties, it's not about the benjamin$.

TheManager

First of all, a blatant bull $h!t flag for you homey.


Current rates.

USAirways 12 year a320 captain. $125
USAirways 12 year a320 f/o. $ 85
______

$ 210

Delta a320 f/o. $ 135

Oh, did you mean to write Delta captain instead of f/o

Delta a320 capt. $197


And a little factual footnote. They are in line for massive pay raises in January.

Would C12k have passed without the massive sales push behind it?

Just look how it was presented, or not, to the reps. Took it straight to the chair?

Bottom line. It was not optimal nor what I expected for a return on my family's investment.

finis72

Do you really think DALPA went into our NEGOTIATIONS ( I capitalize for emphasis) and asked for 4-8-3-3 ?. You should ask a negotiator past or present on how our openers are crafted, it's very interesting and informative. I believe DALPA goes into every negotiation trying to get the most possible on an unlevel playing field. No matter how much they get 30% will always be convinced they didn't get enough.
Every DL pilot wants to get paid more and work less but I believe the majority realize the limitations of the real world. You feel DALPA hasn't done the job and I respect your view on that but I still believe it is a minority view. A financially strong company floats all boats and the best contract in the world will not last with a financially weak company. There is nothing but good news and advancement in the very near future. If the DPA can't get a vote before spring they will be done because the stagnation years and the frustration that comes with that will be over and a lot of their support will evaporate.
My 2 centavos.

finis72

A little side bet, betcha with that " massive " pay raise they don't make it to our level, I hope they way surpass us but I don't believe they will.

TheManager

Positive about that.

What is ALPA going to do to prove to the other half of the pilot group that put their support behind them, that they are a viable option?

So, AEs are going to solve restoration, true bottom up, and more transparency?

finis72

In 3 letters, yes. It is obviously a lot more complicated then just stagnation and that was a simplification on my part because I'm a hunt and peck typer. New hires, new Captains, new airplanes rolling in all create positive feelings. The DPA campaign is purely negative anti DALPA and if pilots start viewing the future as positive they will be reluctant to change representation. Again this is just my view, if DPA has a chance they better do it soon.

TheManager

Wouldn't be so sure about that fini.

I will return with the exact, verifiable numbers. Was told by a west pilot they go to $135 in January. He is an A320 f/o.

I'll get their #'s from the transition agreement and post it.

Also know there are going to lots of parties in PHX when Judge Silver rules. Any day now.

TheManager

There. Fixed the title for ya.

johnso29

If it's not about the benjamin$, then why is upgrade so important?


Yes I meant CA, but mistakenly typed FO.

Airways 320 crew $210 per hour
Delta 7ER CA $213 per hour.
Delta 767/330 CA $241 per hour
Delta 747/777 CA $255 per hour

WRT the massive sales job, are you implying that we as individuals are too stupid to see past the so called sales job? Or perhaps 62% of the pilot group felt the TA was acceptable?

BTW, what's DALPA supposed to say? Here guys. This TA is a POS, but it's the best we can get. Vote YES. And Airways guys getting "massive" raises isn't saying much when they currently earn $86 per hour. They have every other pilot group to thank. They didn't have to work since their peers already raised the bar. My goodness. Even Virgin America FOs currently make more.