Middle East carrier subsidies
03-25-2015 | 07:48 AM
#251
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
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From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Um...ok, so now can we talk about unemployment?
There's been an ongoing battle in MCO over building light rail service on the I4 corridor between Tampa and Daytona Beach. The chief opponents are the Rental Car companies and the cabbies.
MCO is the largest rental car market on the planet from what I hear on the news. If there were a light rail to the beach or to Tampa, that will hurt them, no doubt.
03-25-2015 | 08:16 AM
#252
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: MD-80 Captain
Just a carrier that get Billions in government subsidies from their own government plus the U.S. Ex-Im. That allows them to fly airplanes that are not full and not making money. Why would Delta or anyone else enter markets where they know they will lose money?
If the U.S. government would give us a few Billion dollars, remove all the labor laws, remove all the taxes, and if the UAE would give us a 10% kickback on the costs of the airplanes we fly into their country then I'm sure we would be all over it. That would be unfair though and we can't be unfair with the Arabs.
If the U.S. government would give us a few Billion dollars, remove all the labor laws, remove all the taxes, and if the UAE would give us a 10% kickback on the costs of the airplanes we fly into their country then I'm sure we would be all over it. That would be unfair though and we can't be unfair with the Arabs.
By the way here is Emirates Fiscal Report for the last year with the Independant Auditors Report by PriceWaterhouseCoopers on page 65.
Annual Report | Facts & Figures | The Emirates Group
EK Load Factor was just shy of 80% last year with flights to the US in the mid 80's load factor with comparabily priced tickets to US Airlines. Doesn't sound like flying empty planes to me.
As far as subsidies there is some serious selective memory going on here. Just a few years ago Delta received financing from the Canadian Export Bank to buy RJ's for their regionals.
They also received 50 million in subsidies from Pennsylvania when purchasing their oil refinery.
Also money from Minnesota to expand a call center.
I could go on but I hope I have made my point.
03-25-2015 | 08:47 AM
#253
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,599
Likes: 2
I keep hearing this "Billions of dollars in subsidies" being tossed around. Would you mind being more specific? Cash infusions? Discounted fuel?
By the way here is Emirates Fiscal Report for the last year with the Independant Auditors Report by PriceWaterhouseCoopers on page 65.
Annual Report | Facts & Figures | The Emirates Group
EK Load Factor was just shy of 80% last year with flights to the US in the mid 80's load factor with comparabily priced tickets to US Airlines. Doesn't sound like flying empty planes to me.
As far as subsidies there is some serious selective memory going on here. Just a few years ago Delta received financing from the Canadian Export Bank to buy RJ's for their regionals.
They also received 50 million in subsidies from Pennsylvania when purchasing their oil refinery.
Also money from Minnesota to expand a call center.
I could go on but I hope I have made my point.
By the way here is Emirates Fiscal Report for the last year with the Independant Auditors Report by PriceWaterhouseCoopers on page 65.
Annual Report | Facts & Figures | The Emirates Group
EK Load Factor was just shy of 80% last year with flights to the US in the mid 80's load factor with comparabily priced tickets to US Airlines. Doesn't sound like flying empty planes to me.
As far as subsidies there is some serious selective memory going on here. Just a few years ago Delta received financing from the Canadian Export Bank to buy RJ's for their regionals.
They also received 50 million in subsidies from Pennsylvania when purchasing their oil refinery.
Also money from Minnesota to expand a call center.
I could go on but I hope I have made my point.
GMAB. Subsidies for a call center??
The 3 ME carriers are getting BILLIONS in government subsides and are hiding it illegally so they will be in compliance with open skies. That is a much different issue than Delta getting a couple million for a call center and and RJ's. They are breaking international law and want access to the U.S. aviation market.
They have never been able to win anything playing by the rules. First they let the U.S. discover, develop, build, and market their entire oil infrastructure then turned around and nationalized it. Now they want in on the U.S. aviation market.
I didn't say they were flying empty planes, I said they were flying them at a loss. They can do that because the government subsidizes them. Delta could charge $5 a ticket and be full all day long, but wouldn't make money. You proved my point.....thanks. I think PriceWaterhousCoopers did Enrons audits as well.
03-25-2015 | 08:48 AM
#254
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 0
Ain't nuthin keeping Delta or anyone else from starting SEA-DXB or MCO-DXB service. The mayor of Orlando even went out to Dubai to push for Emirates to fly into MCO.
Mayor Buddy Dyer and Orlando airport execs visit Middle East - tribunedigital-orlandosentinel
By the way EK is flying the 777 into both destinations not the 380.
Mayor Buddy Dyer and Orlando airport execs visit Middle East - tribunedigital-orlandosentinel
By the way EK is flying the 777 into both destinations not the 380.
03-25-2015 | 08:57 AM
#255
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 62
Whip,
Do normal economics somehow not apply to the ME3? Unprecedented growth plans, lavish amenities onboard, lavish terminals, etc, etc. I assume you have been around long enough to wonder how this is all happening without a "little help". It's not just the US3 that are having a problem with this. All the Western European airlines, the Canadians, Australia and probably soon, if not already the Cathay's, Singapore's, JAL, etc. All these airlines combined probably don't have the wide body fleets and orders that 3 airlines from countries that are probably smaller than Rhode Island. Doesn't add up. You may work there and have a vested interest in their success, but at least be honest that something stinks.
Do normal economics somehow not apply to the ME3? Unprecedented growth plans, lavish amenities onboard, lavish terminals, etc, etc. I assume you have been around long enough to wonder how this is all happening without a "little help". It's not just the US3 that are having a problem with this. All the Western European airlines, the Canadians, Australia and probably soon, if not already the Cathay's, Singapore's, JAL, etc. All these airlines combined probably don't have the wide body fleets and orders that 3 airlines from countries that are probably smaller than Rhode Island. Doesn't add up. You may work there and have a vested interest in their success, but at least be honest that something stinks.
03-25-2015 | 10:12 AM
#257
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
But if you're getting help from your uncle the Sheik, well...
03-25-2015 | 10:20 AM
#258
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,599
Likes: 2
The reason why they have more than everyone combined and are the only ones who want more is because you can only operate them if you get subsidies from your government. Nobody else gets subsidies so they can't operate them.
03-25-2015 | 12:45 PM
#259
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
From: Right Seat 737, Front seat T-6
A thouughtful article:
The US Carriers Show Their Case Against Middle East Carriers, But Will Anyone Care? | The Cranky Flier
And a humorous one to lighten the mood:
http://www.thenational.ae/business/a...-playing-field
The US Carriers Show Their Case Against Middle East Carriers, But Will Anyone Care? | The Cranky Flier
And a humorous one to lighten the mood:
http://www.thenational.ae/business/a...-playing-field
03-25-2015 | 01:17 PM
#260
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Likes: 0
I keep hearing this "Billions of dollars in subsidies" being tossed around. Would you mind being more specific? Cash infusions? Discounted fuel?
By the way here is Emirates Fiscal Report for the last year with the Independant Auditors Report by PriceWaterhouseCoopers on page 65.
Annual Report | Facts & Figures | The Emirates Group
EK Load Factor was just shy of 80% last year with flights to the US in the mid 80's load factor with comparabily priced tickets to US Airlines. Doesn't sound like flying empty planes to me.
As far as subsidies there is some serious selective memory going on here. Just a few years ago Delta received financing from the Canadian Export Bank to buy RJ's for their regionals.
They also received 50 million in subsidies from Pennsylvania when purchasing their oil refinery.
Also money from Minnesota to expand a call center.
I could go on but I hope I have made my point.
By the way here is Emirates Fiscal Report for the last year with the Independant Auditors Report by PriceWaterhouseCoopers on page 65.
Annual Report | Facts & Figures | The Emirates Group
EK Load Factor was just shy of 80% last year with flights to the US in the mid 80's load factor with comparabily priced tickets to US Airlines. Doesn't sound like flying empty planes to me.
As far as subsidies there is some serious selective memory going on here. Just a few years ago Delta received financing from the Canadian Export Bank to buy RJ's for their regionals.
They also received 50 million in subsidies from Pennsylvania when purchasing their oil refinery.
Also money from Minnesota to expand a call center.
I could go on but I hope I have made my point.
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