Silver02ex

If you are so worried about what our management does. Why don't you take away all those EJets and CRJ's from the regionals before worrying about what our management does. You have a bigger mess to clean up. How many of those Delta passengers are riding on an RJ that's not flown by mainline Delta pilots? Fix that, then come talk about Spirit stealing your passengers.

Cruise

BAM! Damn straight.

Silver02ex

I'm seeing lots and lots of brand new CRJ and E175 in Delta colors, however Spirit is the one that he has a problem with

Rainbows

Me too!

Feng

I think you're confused on what that business model is. I'm not bashing it, but I don't think many Spirit pilots understand based on the posts that I see.

The Ryanair model isn't just about a la carte pricing. Low labor cost is another integral part of the ULCC model. Looking at Ryanair pilots, they're all paid 30-40% less in total compensation than their European "legacy" counterparts, and at least 20% less than their LCC peers. It's one of the least desirable air carrier to work for and a place where you get your time in and get out. Attrition is upwards 70/month there (keeping the longevity low). Most employees are considered contract employees to skirt labor laws(including pilots). You pay for your own training, uniforms, no retirement, a mess of a "seniority system", no monthly guarantee (at least initially), FOs are typically 50-90K and CA tops out around 140K.
But hey, I think they're the ONLY european carrier with a minimum 4 days off between work blocks in their contract. Oh, and they're also the most profitable airline in Europe.

This is true of all their labor groups, and that is how they're able to grow to the second largest airline in Europe by passenger count, and 4th largest by fleet.

I think it's misguided for Spirit guys to look up to Ryanair as a business model to be proud of. I'm pretty sure your management team is doing everything they can to copy the success Ryan has had, including in the labor department. The difference I see between other management teams and Spirit is that the former is willing to pay or beat industry average (as long as it's not too much) in good times, Spirit, being true to itself as a ULCC, will never been willing to pay industry minus 20% unless there's a strike and the airline has shut down. And that is the main difference between Ryanair and Spirit. Ryanair pilots are contract employees based in many countries, there's not really a cohesive union whereas pilots in the US are unionized giving you guys at least a seat at the table.

If Spirit workgroups is able to attain industry average across the board for pilots, FAs, mechanics, agents, ground and operations personnel. People stayed and longevity/cost increased. It'll no longer be an ULCC carrier and will soon be replaced by Eastern, Braniff IV, etc.

There's no reason to not enjoy working at Spirit, but understand as a ULCC, fighting for industry average means you'll be striking in 3-5 years, start saving up, and the likely result of the strike will still be below industry average.

Good luck to y'all in negotiations.

Chimpy

I wasn't saying I was "proud" of the model per se, I was just making a point it's a good business model.

I also don't think it will be 3-5 years, nor do I feel it will be 20% below IA, but thanks for the vote of confidence, lol

Piklepausepull

What's with all the monkey, er, Chimp avatars?

Chimpy

Out of respect for once loved "SAABaroowski"

BiminiBendo

I think you guys are missing the point. Spirit pilots are below average pilots and don't even deserve the exorbitant pay that we already lavish upon them. You guys aren't good enough to fly at a legacy, but we love you anyway and that's the point that we'll make to the mediator in 2 years!

Don't forget those free smiles guys!

Qotsaautopilot

You Against my better judgment I'll entertain the delta guys in the thread.

Many if not most of us worked for some regional "partner" that flew delta passengers on planes painted in delta colors. Many of us would be delta pilots and not spirit pilots and it's likely spirit wouldn't have pilots at all, but instead it was you, the delta pilot, that were too good to fly the rj. Instead of flying cargo, or flight instructing, or military, and going straight to delta you forced us all to grind it out at a regional "partner" for a decade making peanuts and just hoping to get a call for so much as an interview. While you guys had to figure out how to live with one BMW and a one Chevy instead of two BMWs we were barely eating. A guy can only put his life on hold for so long while waiting for a call that may never come. Some of us are still waiting while we are at spirit but if it never happens we can at least make a living and maybe just maybe put a kid in college if we save our pennies. That was simply not possible while working for the regional "partner" that you, the delta pilot created.

Let's be clear, while many of us believe in the model at spirit we do not to the point that we are willing to subsidize it to make it successful. We will not vote for a contract that does not recognize our worth as professional pilots. How the company makes money behind my door is up to them but the pointy end looks the same as your pointy end and I expect to be compensated the same or better than you, the delta pilot, and will not settle for less. Sure we have a small percentage of white trash with no options in our cockpits that will work for peanuts but they are a small minority and the rest of us just aren't that stupid.

You reference our growth in Atl. We have TWO count them TWO gates. How many does southwest or for that matter did AirTran have? I don't see you bagging on them. That's right they have a legacyesque contract. What about 20 years ago? Not so much. So 20 years ago they sucked but now they're ok? Got it. Why don't you give us a chance to do what needs to be done? And may I remind you that many of us wouldn't even be here if we had flown all of those rjs as delta pilots. You did that.

And if you really want to put an end to spirit get dalpa to convince delta to offer any spirit pilot a seniority number and a class date for the planned 2016 hiring. I'll be there tomorrow and I would bet at least another 600-700 of my spirit brothers. Hell delta gave flow class dates with no interviews to plenty of rj pilots that were actually willing to lower the bar and perpetuate the whipsaw race to the bottom. Those of us not willing to do it were snubbed, and here we are. You can teach most competent pilots to fly any jet at any airline but what you have flowing to delta right now is a bunch of guys that have proved they are willing to work for less and a bunch of "yes men" mil guys.

Some are willing to be ass raped for a promise of something better later. Those guys got flows. Some of us just aren't so we are going to have to earn it the hard way and that's what we are doing here at spirit. No matter how you slice it spirit was an upward move from where we were at. Does that mean we are happy with how things are? Hell no! And we are here to change it the hard way.

Back to the OPs point. If someone comes here they better do it with their eyes open because the pay numbers are real and qol is mostly myth. Qol is ok but not something incredible that doesn't exist elsewhere. I actually hope you don't come here because that only gives us more leverage but if you do you better be willing to fight the good fight and not just be happy it's better than a regional.