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Old 01-30-2016, 06:15 AM   #91  
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UPDATE: A person called me after I posted this evidence saying they were witness to the investigation of this engine with the NTSB and FAA. The person was trying to convince me that the engine did not fail. After talking to my investigator, I am still convinced that the engine did fail.

What if Leah or Linda had been on that aircraft? Luckily, the plane went down in the woods and not in a populated area like 7704 LCW. Now that would have been poetic justice.
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:24 AM   #92  
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Luckily, the plane went down in the woods and not in a populated area like 7704 LCW. Now that would have been poetic justice.[/QUOTE]

Please don't tell me you wish your son's plane had gone down in a populated area? That would be sick, wrong, and sad on so many levels. I GUARANTEE, as a professional pilot, your son would NEVER have wished that.

I still have to compare your blades to some of the comparative examples in my textbooks. Yet you seem so certain! Why? Three (3) of my friends and have recently been killed in simple accidents. Simple in the NTSB's "probable cause" at least. These folks could fly CIRCLES around me. They were artists of the air; I a meer Understudy. They were all stellar examples of the penultimate pro; with many times more hours than myself. TENS of thousands of hours in one instance. Yet they still died at their own hands. Pilot Error. So Hard to see, to admit.

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? Simply put; it states that the simplest answer is usually the right one. Until I compare your pictures to my textbooks and confer with Mechanic friends (I fly a PT-6 too BTW) I fear I still agree with the NTSB's finding of Spatial Disorientation. I will let you know more when I talk.

Best wishes Kepi, believe in your Son's passion for the air, his love of the heavens. Know that he died with his "boots on." I do not wish to do so myself, I hope to die an old lady in a rocking chair; but know that he lived the kind of life a fraction of the human population ever gets to know. He smelled the inside of a cloud, felt the crisp cool of a freshly landed wing, knew the delicious pull of the RAIL's on a long tired night; saw the stars in the way only the airborne know.

He lived a good life; however brief.

Best Wishes,
RadialGal
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Old 01-31-2016, 07:00 AM   #93  
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We can't even get into the blade creep and micro fractures at the neck that would be present from blade failure. To be sure, there are signatures, but many would not be present to the naked eye. For comparison, Google a few ATSB or NTSB full accident reports. You'll see the kind of testing that goes along with a PT6 blade failure. I think the inference is that the engine turbine must have failed due to the intact compressor, but then there's nothing in front of the compressor anyway.

Are there any pictures of the centrifugal compressor? Burner assembly?
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Old 01-31-2016, 09:28 AM   #94  
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Default Sorry RadialGal

I apologize for the last sentences of my reply but they are meant for someone who is creeping on my posts and was, I believe, indirectly responsible for the crash. Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I told my son "You can do something very few people know how to do. You can fly an airplane. I am so proud of what you have accomplished"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadialGal View Post
Luckily, the plane went down in the woods and not in a populated area like 7704 LCW. Now that would have been poetic justice.
Please don't tell me you wish your son's plane had gone down in a populated area? That would be sick, wrong, and sad on so many levels. I GUARANTEE, as a professional pilot, your son would NEVER have wished that.

I still have to compare your blades to some of the comparative examples in my textbooks. Yet you seem so certain! Why? Three (3) of my friends and have recently been killed in simple accidents. Simple in the NTSB's "probable cause" at least. These folks could fly CIRCLES around me. They were artists of the air; I a meer Understudy. They were all stellar examples of the penultimate pro; with many times more hours than myself. TENS of thousands of hours in one instance. Yet they still died at their own hands. Pilot Error. So Hard to see, to admit.

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? Simply put; it states that the simplest answer is usually the right one. Until I compare your pictures to my textbooks and confer with Mechanic friends (I fly a PT-6 too BTW) I fear I still agree with the NTSB's finding of Spatial Disorientation. I will let you know more when I talk.

Best wishes Kepi, believe in your Son's passion for the air, his love of the heavens. Know that he died with his "boots on." I do not wish to do so myself, I hope to die an old lady in a rocking chair; but know that he lived the kind of life a fraction of the human population ever gets to know. He smelled the inside of a cloud, felt the crisp cool of a freshly landed wing, knew the delicious pull of the RAIL's on a long tired night; saw the stars in the way only the airborne know.

He lived a good life; however brief.

Best Wishes,
RadialGal[/QUOTE]
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Old 01-31-2016, 09:44 AM   #95  
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Here is the response from my investigator after I told him what the person who claimed to be at the NTSB investigation said.

"I can tell you from all my years of doing this and looking at dozens of crashed PT6ís that if there is enough force on the engine to cause the entire power turbine wheel to shed all its blades, then it will happen to the compressor turbine wheel as well. They are fractions of an inch aware from each. And we would see it in the impeller and impeller shroud. He is right, that engine spins at 38,000 rpm. And when it comes to a screeching halt at that rpm under full power, all hell breaks loose. That engine was pristine other than the PT wheel. There was no foreign object damage from dirt ingestion as he says. You can see that in the entire compressor section. I attached photos of the first 2 stages of compression. The first is the impeller wheel and the second is labeled ď#2Ē Where is this damage from engine running and ingesting dirt? Itís not there. Because this engine most likely shut down when the PT wheel failed. The torque wrinkle in the exhaust duct comes from a high powered prop hitting an inanimate object. It doesnít care whether it is a tree or a house or dirt. When 800 hp at the propeller comes to a stop, the large rotating mass of the engine wants to keep going. As such it puts a big transverse wrinkle in the exhaust duct.

I did look at possible autopilot issues. I donít buy he forgot to turn it on. I donít buy that he got spatial disorientation. The flight track shows him flying straight and then just losing altitude. As he would if he lost engine power. I did look and the autopilot didnít have a trim motor which is really the only unit in an autopilot that can generally kill you. The typical pitch and roll servos donít really have a history of putting the aircraft in an unrecoverable situation. I didnít have or test the autopilot computer but the evidence on the flight controls really isnít there to support that theory."


QUOTE=JamesNoBrakes;2059739]We can't even get into the blade creep and micro fractures at the neck that would be present from blade failure. To be sure, there are signatures, but many would not be present to the naked eye. For comparison, Google a few ATSB or NTSB full accident reports. You'll see the kind of testing that goes along with a PT6 blade failure. I think the inference is that the engine turbine must have failed due to the intact compressor, but then there's nothing in front of the compressor anyway.

Are there any pictures of the centrifugal compressor? Burner assembly?[/QUOTE]

Last edited by Kepi; 01-31-2016 at 10:17 AM. Reason: New info
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:44 AM   #96  
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Pics from investigator. AZA
image.jpg
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:50 AM   #97  
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Pic from investigator
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File Type: jpeg image.jpeg (23.0 KB, 379 views)
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:59 PM   #98  
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Default Pictures of the Burner

Here are some additional pictures of burner assembly from the hot section and an exhaust duct showing pings from the inside out from the broken bits of power turbine blades as they were ejected during the flight.
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File Type: jpg DSC04991-2.jpg (66.5 KB, 354 views)
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:04 PM   #99  
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Default Hot section

more pics of the hot section.
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File Type: jpg DSC04990-2.jpg (59.4 KB, 349 views)
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:06 PM   #100  
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Pictures of the exhaust duct
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File Type: jpg DSC04993-2.jpg (86.8 KB, 349 views)
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