aa73

Never say never! Stranger things have happened....

More than likely, we'll never see a DOH scenario due to that very reason. We'll probably get rel seniority or a ratio.

73

NoWake200

I am very much afraid of this! In fact if this does happen I will never go back!

NoWake200

I like your positive thinking AA and you are correct, you never know. But looking at my career up to this very moment, I do not like what I have seen. Certainly do not like where it may be going.

aa73

Well, based on what happened with AWA/US, I think the standard has been set that when DOH doesn't work, relative seniority seems to be the way to go. Wherever you are on the old seniority list, you end up on the new one. Then you throw up a few fences to close any "loose ends" between the two airlines.

I really don't see AA outright merging with anyone. I think they are playing the waiting game while the big four duke it out, then AA will step in and either play spoiler or hash out some deal of "asset relief" to appease the DOT's concerns. Either way, it probably wouldn't involve a massive integration. Recall what deal AA worked out with the UAL/US deal in 2000... what AA got out of it was half the USAir shuttle, swapping AA F100s for US 757s, and the pilots to go with it.

Either way, if that doesn't happen... well, let's just say I am boning up on my British accent. "Hullo, aa73...Afraid you're furloughed, old chap... bloody hell!"

73

Oldfreightdawg

Not so sure about that one. With the British pound trading 2 to 1 against the greenback, our pay rates look awfully cheap.

B757200ER

DOH at TWA or the screwed-up 'new' seniority forced on them by AA/APA/ALPA?

After furloughs, only 495 TWA pilots were left at AA, out of 2400. Any problem with that?

Your last sentence made me go----HUH? The 'facts' are these: Out of 2400 TWA pilots, 1300 were stapled, 65% of the list. Out of 2400 TWA pilots, 1900 were furloughed, over 75% of the list.

You may have been slightly affected by the seniority integration, but you never lost your job for FIVE YEARS.

NoWake200

ER, I was just talking to a friend who just got recalled about getting back to STL. He told me currently there are less than 300 American FOs left. Once they are all gone that is it! Unless they expand STL or ORD/DFW grows their is no telling when I/we could get back home. The captain seats we have protected from Supp CC really means nothing. I wold be looking least 7 years to get back to STL as a simple FO on the bottom of the list. On top of being furloughed for the past 5 years.

So what I guess I am trying to get at, they really have nothing to worry about. Those captains that are junior to FOs are really just farts in the wind. Kind of like the farts in the wind all the TWA pilots would have been..... 2,400 to their 10,000+! But instead they loose sleep nightly over a very very small percentage of pilots on the property.

Go figure some of the lines of thinking.

aa73

ER... we've been though this before. 1124 pilots, or 54%, were stapled - not 1300. Approx 47% were integrated at 1:8. Granted, many of those are retired today, but those were the "integration" numbers on the official date.

I know the exact number is a moot point but one thing I kept CLOSE track of during the deal was exact numbers.

/r,
73
lucky to still be here

aafurloughee

guys what's done is done. I have had rotten luck as well. I have dwelled on it for many years with 20/20 hindsight. Now is the time to learn from our mistakes band together, get a kickass contract and guard ourselves from future mergers and aquisitions.

Oldfreightdawg

Well said. Except we can't really guard against a merger, since there is a new law in the land (courtesy of ALPA), which will arbitrate any seniority list in a merger. AMR isn't playing nice-nice anymore, and I don't see an APA--AMR co-op in any kind of merger like you are seeing over at NWA--DAL.

Best we can hope for is AMR to sit this one out and bid on some of the spin-offs that the DOJ will insist on, get some airplanes and get our furloughees back (for those who would come back).

Hope to see you back soon.