Superpilot92

It always make me giggle that you DAL guys always leave out the part about you parking planes and that the md80s are just as at risk as our dc9s.

AV8ER13

No I have not, BECAUSE I WAS NOT AROUND DURING THAT MERGER, I am not a red book or a green book. I agree it was wrong, I think it speaks volumes on your character that you are willing to step to that level! You even said it was "despicable" but then you are willing to do it. WOW! AGAIN, that way of thinking is not going to get us anywhere. Shame on you for calling one person out and then defending yourself to do it to someone else!

nwaf16dude

AV8ER13,

A merged list with no fences, and a "no bump, no flush" provision means that yes, a DAL guy that wanted to fly a 747 400 could bid into it, but only if there is an opening from a retirement or "bid out." He could not "bump" a junior person out of a seat that he wants. Of course it would go the other way as well if there was an opening on a DAL jet. I'm not familiar with DAL's displacement bid process. We don't have separate award and displacement bids at NWA.

I say NWA or DAL guy, but hopefully if this merger goes through there will only be DAL guys and no more Red/Green/Blue/Delta/Real Delta crap going on.

Caveat all that with the fact that I have no idea what is actually being discussed. Lots of wild speculation and rumor here and elsewhere right now. Try not to get too caught up in it. Call or e-mail your reps.

AV8ER13

I understand all that, but then would the DAL pilot be more senior within the fleet than the NWA pilot? Would he get his monthly bid for QOL before the NWA pilot?

nwaf16dude

If his seniority number is lower, yes.

Next question for the DAL guys...latest wacky rumor (at least I hope it's a wacky rumor) is that DAL is talking about giving up 100 seat scope as part of this negotiation so that the merged airline will be able to get rid of all the DC-9s. Have you guys heard that one, and if so, what do you think?

DAL4EVER

Step to what level? And who am I calling out? You are going around throwing stones at DALPA. I merely asked if you had protested to the NWA MEC or anyone you fly with on how the red book/green book was detrimental to many aviators within your ranks. My character is quite high if you knew me. But my character has nothing to do with closed door negotiations. As I understand it, your MEC wouldn't budge on the SLI issue. You would have gotten much more substantial increases in pay, working conditions, retirement, etc. than I would have on a percentage basis. Yet your negotiating team wanted one more benefit. Better seniority. That would have been screwed me. Are you defending that? Don't know. Let me know that you would have told your negotiating committee to pound sand if anything was done at the expense of the DAL pilot group.

If the merger is going to happen it is going to happen. If the bar is raised by one group the other will come up to it. If you raise it, great. If we do, fine. Either way, I don't want a merger where my seniority is significantly impacted with no increases in pay, working conditions, retirement, etc. If I hit the street so you can keep your job are you going to volunteer to be in my place? Failure to do so means that you look out for yourself and your family. And I wouldn't blame you. I'd do the same. The problem is we live in a world where pilots are extremely territorial. We're all for the profession until we have to personally sacrifice. You voted for your MEC. They will defend you. I voted for mine. So I expect them to protect me.

Superpilot92

Better not be true, the DAL guys already screwed the pooch for the whole industry the first time with scope and we dont need round 2. DAL guys? Tell me you learned from the last time!

DAL4EVER

I hope we're all smarter than that. Pandora's box was opened in '92 when the first RJ hit the skies. Thousands of aircraft later there is no closing it. Let's hope they don't ever relax scope again. I will do so only for $2,000,000. That's what I figure I would lose while on furlough and lost time for upgrade, etc.

Superpilot92

This is something i think both pilot groups know CAN NOT happen. We are in complete agreement.

AV8ER13

I didnt say whether DAL or NWA's proposed mergerd list was better, what I said is if one side feels they get more of a say then that is what is wrong. And you say NWA wanted one more benefit, Again, I am not saying which is better (I am playind devils advocate), but did the NWA pilots not earn senority through DOH. Tell me its fair that a guy who has less yrs of service with either company gets to be more senior at the new company just b.c. their pilot group bailed when they could. Vice versa, it sucks have great senority and being told by someone who has a high DOH that he is going to push you down. Both angles SUCK! I dont get a say, I am a recent new hire at NWA and I know where I fall on the SLI. What makes me frustrated is reading that you feel b.c. you work for DAL that you vote counts more than mine (even though I do not have one now). You know what I mean, this threat was not started as a bash on DAL or NWA, the thread was about an article saying DAL mgmt is trying to agree only with DAL pilots and leave NWA out. Thats not fair, and I would be heart broken if any DAL pilot that thinks thats fair!