CVG767A

Regarding the change of stance on arbitration, it looks to me like DALPA is trying to paint a happy face on something they're not happy about.

sailingfun

The Flip-Flop is simple. We had a great contract going forward for all pilots if we could negotiate a SLI. No negotiated list equaled no contract. The company was quite clear on that. Without a list in hand DALPA preferred to not merge. The company stated that without all agreements in place there would be no merger. We opted for no merger. For reasons we are not aware of the company changed that position and informed DALPA that they were going to merge with or without the pilots. That now meant that arbitration was not only a real possibility but either pilot group could drive it to arbitration if they desired. There is one other point I was unaware of. The NWA offer of arbitration was outside of ALPA merger policy. Now that we are going the more traditional route arbitration will be inside ALPA merger policy. A small but very important difference for Delta pilots.

Carl Spackler

Staplegun,

This is so interesting. You've just read the same letter I have from DALPA and your conclusion is that our guys are liars. Let's recap shall we? Here was my previous post on the subject and the one you used as a quote in your post:

I don't need to ask our MEC Chairman for a clarification, the entire videotaped press conference (including his quote that DALPA is now inexplicably FOR arbitration) is on youtube and other spots. He said what he said, it's on videotape...if you hear it you'll see that no clarification is needed. If it is not true, if NWALPA is lying, how easy would it be for DALPA to issue a statement reiterating their long standing belief that arbitration is a failed process and a non-starter? That would instantly clear things up and make DALPA look consistent before and after the signing of the LOA. It would also prove your assertion that NWALPA got it wrong.

Now you post the letter from DALPA and you highlight all the things you think makes NWALPA liars. Read what I said above. Our guys were saying DALPA is now inexplicably for arbitration. I was trying to find out if that was true. You read the latest DALPA letter and say it's proof that NWALPA are liars. But look at what the end of the DALPA letter says - (my emphasis added)

"We have been in contact with both Delta management and the Northwest MEC leadership, and we are attempting to schedule preparations between the two Negotiating Committees and actual negotiations with the company as soon as practical. We will continue to pursue a single joint contract with full parity for the Northwest pilots to take effect at the close of the corporate transaction. We are also committed to the premise that seniority integration should be accomplished after negotiation of the single joint contract by expedited negotiations and, if necessary, expedited arbitration to be completed before closing of a corporate transaction. Unlike our attempt to reach a cooperative seniority list integration before the merger announcement, arbitration can have a role post announcement, either through ALPA merger policy or earlier, through mutual agreement."

I was going to leave you with the rhetorical question of how that makes NWALPA liars, but I won't. It won't do any good. It is an amazingly interesting study of human nature though. Good people from the same industry who read the same letter come to a totally different opinion.

Carl

Scoop

Carl,
I don't think either MEC is lying. I guess you have to be a little bit of a politician to be on either MEC and they are doing what politicians do - trying to gain an advantage for the home team. I don't think either side is made up of boy scouts and sunday school honor students and I wouldn't want them to be. Remember these are the same guys that will be fighting for us together against management pretty soon and we all know what management is capable of. Scoop

Carl Spackler

Dear Scoop, Sailing fun and CVG and.....

I admire your attempt at spin. The DALPA letter was very clear - DALPA says arbitration CAN play a role post LOA. This is exactly what NWALPA said. Again NWALPA was saying pre LOA DALPA was opposed to arbitration calling it a failed option and a NON-STARTER, but post LOA DALPA is inexplicably FOR arbitration. I made posts that tried to find out if that was true and was met with posts saying our guys are LIARS, and DALPA's position is entirely consistent, and I've just heard from rep who says DALPA is still absolutely opposed to arbitration.

The important part for me is that we got one of our first facts today, and they have been damn hard to come by. I'm glad our guys weren't lying - it would have disappointed me tremendously.

Carl

CVG767A

Carl, reread my post. No spin there. With the current situation, arbitration, at some point, is mandatory. What choice does DALPA have, but to say they're okay with it?

If anything, I took a pot shot at my MEC.

Carl Spackler

CVG,

The reason it is spin is because what you've just posted was not the question. The question was: "is DALPA for arbitration post LOA." The question was never whether DALPA thought at some point arbitration would become mandatory, or whether DALPA has no other choice but to say they're OK with it. The DALPA letter states their current position as one that wants to get an SLI and that arbitration can play a role. That position is totally different from the pre-LOA position of DALPA calling arbitration a non-starter. Non-starter means: "forget it...ain't gonna happen...if this is what you want, this is going nowhere."

That's why it's spin. But that's OK, I'm just glad our guys didn't lie.

Carl

Scoop

Carl perhaps this will help, but if not I guess you can just keep believing our MEC chairman is a liar - I don't think he will care.

DAL MEC: "We are agianst arbitration."

DAL legal advisor: "You have no choice - its ALPA policy."

DAL MEC: "Crap - OK when do we start?"

If you know a way for us to avoid arbitration please share it with us because apparantly we don't.

Scoop

Carl Spackler

I absolutely do NOT think you're MEC Chairman is a liar. I've not seen any evidence to that effect at all. That was never the assertion. The assertion was that NWALPA were liars for saying the DALPA is now for arbitration post LOA. Our guys weren't lying. You're guys weren't either, they've just changed their position. Changing one's position is not lying.

Carl

tsquare

I knew the assistant greenskeeper was a wise man