NWA/DELTA Roadshows
05-06-2008, 05:44 PM
#41
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by NWA320pilot
With dynamic senority there are no fences.... Basically when a NWA pilot retires a NWA pilot moves up to his position. On the other hand the same is true when a DAL pilot retires a DAL pilot moves up a number. Your DAL senority would determine what you could hold same as today.
With dynamic senority both sides will reap the benefits of their upcoming retirements and neither side has an advantage. The only question with dynamic senority is at what ratio do you slot the list to begin with...... Personally I believe that we will come up with something that is along these lines. By doing this everyone is put on a level playing field. The retirement of aircraft be it -9, 80, or anything else would work out based on senority within DAL since we will all be DAL pilots post merger.
With dynamic senority both sides will reap the benefits of their upcoming retirements and neither side has an advantage. The only question with dynamic senority is at what ratio do you slot the list to begin with...... Personally I believe that we will come up with something that is along these lines. By doing this everyone is put on a level playing field. The retirement of aircraft be it -9, 80, or anything else would work out based on senority within DAL since we will all be DAL pilots post merger.
As far as having to redo the seniority list once a month, I could write an Excel spreadsheet for that in about 1 day - and I'm an old fart. That is no burden to the company at all.
I really think this could be the answer for the vast majority of rational thinkers out there.
Carl
05-06-2008, 06:25 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by Widebody
Has this ever been done before?
Your copilot today may be senior to you tomorrow...?
The merger that never ends...dynamic for 5 years, 10 years, forever?
Would this not be a huge consession on the DAL side for 5 to 7 years, considering nwa upcoming retirements far outnumber dal retirements? Time is money.
We're all delta pilots, but not all advancing equally. A 1000+ DnEwLaTA pilots march gleefully past me...
Still not sure why nwa expects, (and may get), adjustments for 'before merger events', (retirements), but dal doesn't, (pension fund liquidation). Why must I be the vehicle used to compensate for what did or did not happen at your airline? Not a rant, just a question.
Your copilot today may be senior to you tomorrow...?
The merger that never ends...dynamic for 5 years, 10 years, forever?
Would this not be a huge consession on the DAL side for 5 to 7 years, considering nwa upcoming retirements far outnumber dal retirements? Time is money.
We're all delta pilots, but not all advancing equally. A 1000+ DnEwLaTA pilots march gleefully past me...
Still not sure why nwa expects, (and may get), adjustments for 'before merger events', (retirements), but dal doesn't, (pension fund liquidation). Why must I be the vehicle used to compensate for what did or did not happen at your airline? Not a rant, just a question.
Can you tell me what you KNOW of the pension situation of NWA pilots?
New K Now
P.S. If you really, truly educate yourself, maybe you will see why we are making that point.
You are saying that you were screwed because you lost your pension.... NEWSFLASH!!! So are we.
The senior NWA guys who will be retiring are the ones with the pensions.
05-06-2008, 07:02 PM
#43
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 767ER Captain
Posts: 14
Can't leave you guys alone for 1 minute...
What did I admit??? A 'dynamic' list would be a concession for the dal pilots. It would potentially stop dal progression and allow 100s, (1000s) of nwa pilots to pass over dal pilots. This could mean virtual stagnation for many years if the new retirement age is considered. The fact that you have more retirements can't be argued. The position that dal pilots need to compensate you for that can be.
What's in for the dal pilot? A nwa pilot fills almost every seat for 5 to 7 years. A win/win? I see your win, but I'm having trouble finding my prize. Maybe if it's restricted to the equipment you bring in, but if we're using my ball and bat, I want to play too. You bring in 250 airplanes + 100 dc9s, and get to choose from 750. I get to watch.
Carl, did I read that right. You're willing to give up seniority #9? Maybe I'll come around...
What's in for the dal pilot? A nwa pilot fills almost every seat for 5 to 7 years. A win/win? I see your win, but I'm having trouble finding my prize. Maybe if it's restricted to the equipment you bring in, but if we're using my ball and bat, I want to play too. You bring in 250 airplanes + 100 dc9s, and get to choose from 750. I get to watch.
Carl, did I read that right. You're willing to give up seniority #9? Maybe I'll come around...
05-06-2008, 07:12 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by Widebody
What did I admit??? A 'dynamic' list would be a concession for the dal pilots. It would potentially stop dal progression and allow 100s, (1000s) of nwa pilots to pass over dal pilots. This could mean virtual stagnation for many years if the new retirement age is considered. The fact that you have more retirements can't be argued. The position that dal pilots need to compensate you for that can be.
What's in for the dal pilot? A nwa pilot fills almost every seat for 5 to 7 years. A win/win? I see your win, but I'm having trouble finding my prize. Maybe if it's restricted to the equipment you bring in, but if we're using my ball and bat, I want to play too. You bring in 250 airplanes + 100 dc9s, and get to choose from 750. I get to watch.
Carl, did I read that right.You're willing to give up seniority #9? Maybe I'll come around...
What's in for the dal pilot? A nwa pilot fills almost every seat for 5 to 7 years. A win/win? I see your win, but I'm having trouble finding my prize. Maybe if it's restricted to the equipment you bring in, but if we're using my ball and bat, I want to play too. You bring in 250 airplanes + 100 dc9s, and get to choose from 750. I get to watch.
Carl, did I read that right.You're willing to give up seniority #9? Maybe I'll come around...
Widebody,
Any chance you can make a post without throwing in a jab against the DC-9? The last I checked, it's an airplane too. From what I can tell, you disregard, disrespect and are ready to discard it every chance you get. Stop being such an airplane snob.
New K Now
05-06-2008, 07:18 PM
#45
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Widebody
What did I admit??? A 'dynamic' list would be a concession for the dal pilots. It would potentially stop dal progression and allow 100s, (1000s) of nwa pilots to pass over dal pilots. This could mean virtual stagnation for many years if the new retirement age is considered. The fact that you have more retirements can't be argued. The position that dal pilots need to compensate you for that can be.
What's in for the dal pilot? A nwa pilot fills almost every seat for 5 to 7 years. A win/win? I see your win, but I'm having trouble finding my prize. Maybe if it's restricted to the equipment you bring in, but if we're using my ball and bat, I want to play too. You bring in 250 airplanes + 100 dc9s, and get to choose from 750. I get to watch.
Carl, did I read that right. You're willing to give up seniority #9? Maybe I'll come around...
What's in for the dal pilot? A nwa pilot fills almost every seat for 5 to 7 years. A win/win? I see your win, but I'm having trouble finding my prize. Maybe if it's restricted to the equipment you bring in, but if we're using my ball and bat, I want to play too. You bring in 250 airplanes + 100 dc9s, and get to choose from 750. I get to watch.
Carl, did I read that right. You're willing to give up seniority #9? Maybe I'll come around...
IM
05-06-2008, 07:19 PM
#46
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 767ER Captain
Posts: 14
Nope...
newKnow,
You're the one asking for special consideration because of dal retirements. I'm not asking for special consideration because of your frozen pension. I use it only as an example.
Your pension situation is not my business. Our retirements prior to your arrival on the property is not your business.
I never mentioned we were screwed out of our retirement, I said it was liquidated. A simple fact.
Newsflash...everybodys got a sad story. That's not a free pass to the front of the line, for either group.
P.S. why don't u splain it to me...
You're the one asking for special consideration because of dal retirements. I'm not asking for special consideration because of your frozen pension. I use it only as an example.
Your pension situation is not my business. Our retirements prior to your arrival on the property is not your business.
I never mentioned we were screwed out of our retirement, I said it was liquidated. A simple fact.
Newsflash...everybodys got a sad story. That's not a free pass to the front of the line, for either group.
P.S. why don't u splain it to me...
05-06-2008, 07:32 PM
#49
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 767ER Captain
Posts: 14
dc 9
newKnow, I suspect the dc9 would be the first and most logical aircraft to retire since it is the oldest in the separate or combined fleet. I think it has been stated that several are already scheduled to be parked. So my position is that they won't be here for anyone to fly for very long. Please educate me on the real situation.
I checked all my past posts and can't find anything that constitutes an attack on the dc9. My apologies if you've been offended.
I checked all my past posts and can't find anything that constitutes an attack on the dc9. My apologies if you've been offended.
05-06-2008, 07:34 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
want it both ways
Originally Posted by Widebody
Has this ever been done before?
Your copilot today may be senior to you tomorrow...?
The merger that never ends...dynamic for 5 years, 10 years, forever?
Would this not be a huge consession on the DAL side for 5 to 7 years, considering nwa upcoming retirements far outnumber dal retirements? Time is money.
We're all delta pilots, but not all advancing equally. A 1000+ DnEwLaTA pilots march gleefully past me...
Still not sure why nwa expects, (and may get), adjustments for 'before merger events', (retirements), but dal doesn't, (pension fund liquidation). Why must I be the vehicle used to compensate for what did or did not happen at your airline? Not a rant, just a question.
Your copilot today may be senior to you tomorrow...?
The merger that never ends...dynamic for 5 years, 10 years, forever?
Would this not be a huge consession on the DAL side for 5 to 7 years, considering nwa upcoming retirements far outnumber dal retirements? Time is money.
We're all delta pilots, but not all advancing equally. A 1000+ DnEwLaTA pilots march gleefully past me...
Still not sure why nwa expects, (and may get), adjustments for 'before merger events', (retirements), but dal doesn't, (pension fund liquidation). Why must I be the vehicle used to compensate for what did or did not happen at your airline? Not a rant, just a question.
respectfully
keenster
