Originally Posted by Xray678

I submit it is not your date of hire that has earned you a 320 seat, or will earn you a 330, 787 or 747 seat. It is your position on your list that earns you those things. Doesn't matter if it took you 22 years to get where you are, or 8 years, you are still just a number on a list no matter when you were hired.

Now, if you want to argue that the Delta list will have a detrimental effect on your expected career progression, that is a valid argument. But for someone to say they should go ahead of someone else simply because they were hired first is completely irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Eric Stratton

don't forget retirements have alot to do with your future position.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

Selcall,

That is complete BS. If your pilot group is so shallow and distrustful that they think an outside party can develop a better, fairer integration methodology than the three(?) elected pilot members of a merger committee, then I feel sorry for you and your group. I'm convinced you'd rather the arbitrator give you a nickel, than your negotiators negotiate to receive a dime, because you are implying, by very definition, if they negotiate a solution, it will be looked at as worse than what the arbitrators would give.

BTW, that's the EXACT same philosophy that drove the train wreck at USAir.

All I can say is I hope you are wrong.

PG

Originally Posted by Xray678

I'm not forgetting that at all. Retirements, on both sides, are a factor that should be considered.

But all I ever hear from a NWA pilot is "my DOH this, or my DOH that". DOH is not a factor.

Originally Posted by tomgoodman

If there's a negotiated list, it will necessarily involve great compromises from both sides. In that event, what will the subsequent "membership input" to the MEC/negotiators be?

a) "Thanks for your hard work. We know you got the best deal you could."

b) "You sold us out!"

An honest and accurate answer to this question will tell you whether the list will be negotiated or arbitrated.

Originally Posted by satchip

How do you figure that? If your seniority combined with your years left puts you in the seat of a wide body as a stand alone, combined under the proposal on the table you will still realize that. Your actual number may be lower than it would be stand alone but the pool of wide body seats will more than double. Every NW pilot who would retire as a stand alone will retire in a combined list. You will still move up a number for every one that does. In fact we all move up when either one of our respective geezers retires. (disclaimer, I'm a geezer in real life, not airline life).

I won't even get into the argument of our respective futures but suffice it to say we are better off if at the end of our times there are more bases and airplanes to fly than not which would surely be the case if we were alone. Simple equation more airplanes=more opportunities.

pop quiz: What would you rather fly: a 747 at $179/hr or a 767 at $186/hr? *rates from the current APC tables

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Yes Tom, that is the bottom line which you have said all along.

I have heard an interesting rumor though. Given your thesis above, the rumor is that there already is a negotiated list. A combination of the two proposals. However, unless both sides got to see how extreme the list could have been, there would be no hope of seeing the negotiated list as positive by anyone. The theory is that both MEC's could live with the following conversation by their members: "Yes this negotiated list sucks, but it's a hell of a lot better than that DAL/NWA proposal would have been!"

Carl