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Originally Posted by Bartender
(Post 2555866)
Sometime around forever. These CPP scams are just recruiting gimmicks to get new hires to come to these regionals.
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Originally Posted by tonsterboy5
(Post 2556205)
Majors flying their regional feed sounds great at first until you think of the fact that it will most likely be a pay cut. Yes united will hire pay more for each seat than a regional but I can almost bet they will put new hires from regional into the 76 passenger jet for a few years. The progression would be Air Wisconsin or mesa FO for 2 years, then captain for 3 before moving to united. When you leave the regional you will be making 75ish and hour will most likely take a pay cut to sit do for 4 more years making mid 60s as a fo at United on the same regional jet. Yes the mid 60s is more than a regional pays a FO but they will just be filling those seats with prior regional guys. The period of changing from regional flying to all in house will basically screw everyone that has paid their dues by further stunting career progression. About 5 years in it will be great for the guys at 1500 as they will be able to go straight to a major but there will be a price to pay for those during the transition. Let me get my seniority number and be senior enough to not be stuck in a RJ for both a regional and major.
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Originally Posted by calmwinds
(Post 2555820)
If it works like Xjet, you have to be a current United Express pilot and prior hours will count toward the requirement to qualify for the interview.
What’s idiotic is we can’t get people through Ejet training now.... maybe, this will make IAD senior..... |
Originally Posted by 4V14T0R
(Post 2556293)
Well and what does that do to your PRIA record if you quit in the middle?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Mesa/United CPP what it means..
Here's the scoop and I'm betting the farm that I'm 90% correct on this!
1.) Not EVERY PILOT WILL QUALIFY AT MESA FOR UNITED CPP - what that means? You must do the personality test at United (Hogan) - you must interview with a united HR/recruiter (may not pass) that is all to be accepted into the program 2.) American Eagle CRJ 900 pilots WILL qualify - I say this because CRJ 900 pilots will be qualified to fly the 700 for United. I believe the terminology will read "pilots must be qualified to fly the aircraft as United Express..." CRJ pilots across the board will qualify 3.) Only a certain percentage of people will go - Rumor mill says 10% of mesa pilots, may be higher up to 25% currently being offered to XJT. But, I don't think it will be that significant 4.) this is NOT A FLOW or GUARANTEE that a pilot will be at UNITED - This is to stop attrition and to keep people at mesa period! - History has a way of repeating itself, compass flow to NWA/DELTA? anyone remember those days? yep! now look at compass... - No one should let a CPP dictate any career moves! Spirit calls you go! Jet Blue calls, ditch mesa... get the picture! anyway that's my synopsis of this whole program. It is more carrot dangling to keep people at mesa and to use as a recruiting tool! Like I say, I have a sixth sense for these things!! :D:o |
Originally Posted by Cloudsurfer83
(Post 2556655)
Here's the scoop and I'm betting the farm that I'm 90% correct on this!
1.) Not EVERY PILOT WILL QUALIFY AT MESA FOR UNITED CPP - what that means? You must do the personality test at United (Hogan) - you must interview with a united HR/recruiter (may not pass) that is all to be accepted into the program 2.) American Eagle CRJ 900 pilots WILL qualify - I say this because CRJ 900 pilots will be qualified to fly the 700 for United. I believe the terminology will read "pilots must be qualified to fly the aircraft as United Express..." CRJ pilots across the board will qualify 3.) Only a certain percentage of people will go - Rumor mill says 10% of mesa pilots, may be higher up to 25% currently being offered to XJT. But, I don't think it will be that significant 4.) this is NOT A FLOW or GUARANTEE that a pilot will be at UNITED - This is to stop attrition and to keep people at mesa period! - History has a way of repeating itself, compass flow to NWA/DELTA? anyone remember those days? yep! now look at compass... - No one should let a CPP dictate any career moves! Spirit calls you go! Jet Blue calls, ditch mesa... get the picture! anyway that's my synopsis of this whole program. It is more carrot dangling to keep people at mesa and to use as a recruiting tool! Like I say, I have a sixth sense for these things!! :D:o All one has to do is ask XJT about the program to see how one works. The closer someone comes to qualifying for the interview, the more likely they are to stay if they want to fly for United. The 4 year degree requirement already knocks out a lot of Mesa pilots. |
Originally Posted by calmwinds
(Post 2556666)
The 4 year degree requirement already knocks out a lot of Mesa pilots. |
Originally Posted by 24/48
(Post 2556599)
You may want to take a look at the United Pilot Agreement before making the above assumption. First year pay on any fleet is just under $90/hour and you get the 16% B/C, 401K, etc. that the UPA provides. No regional I know of offers that. Second year you're over $100/hour and it goes up from there. One thing you can't put a dollar amount on is job security which is something no regional has right now compared to a major.
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The United CBA contains a 76 seat pay rate (technically a CRJ900 payrate specifically). In 2018 FO rates are 87.79 to 119.20 and CA rates from 160.23 to 174.55.
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Originally Posted by tonsterboy5
(Post 2556762)
And do you think that united will pay the same for a 76 seat jet as a 737 or 320? (They won’t) No doubt flying a RJ at United will be way better than flying at a regional, the sad thing is that it will go to new hires for years, and all the new hires will have already spent years at a regional. It will be the initial change over that sucks.
The junior plane, just because. Or a good/rising seniority due to juniorioty of everyone else.
Originally Posted by Eagle06
(Post 2556786)
The United CBA contains a 76 pay rate (technically a CRJ900 payrate specifically). In 2018 FO rates are 87.79 to 119.20 and CA rates from 160.23 to 174.55.
But at the end of the day, STILL BETTER than a regional on EVERY LEVEL. |
Originally Posted by calmwinds
(Post 2556666)
I hope you are right, but I expect United to require the CRJ pilot to be based at IAD.
All one has to do is ask XJT about the program to see how one works. The closer someone comes to qualifying for the interview, the more likely they are to stay if they want to fly for United. The 4 year degree requirement already knocks out a lot of Mesa pilots. |
Originally Posted by Santos Dumont
(Post 2556881)
Difficult, DFW, PHX and SDF pilots can be deadheaded to IAD to cover United flights. It would not be fair for them to be excluded from the program. Besides, I can't see how it would work... will the AA bases (except for the lifers and whatnot) become junior all of the sudden while everyone fights for IAD? The need to figure that out...
So, maybe, the 121 hours are those flown on the UAX branded planes or routes? That would be pretty easy for Mesa to figure out. By the way, XJT doesn’t have this problem. Their American system pilots are exclusively on the CRJ and excluded. It will be interesting seeing how the agreement sorts this out. |
Originally Posted by SUX4U
(Post 2556476)
Absolutely none of us at United care if you have “suffered” at Mesa and feel you deserve to come here without meeting a pretty basic requirement for a career opportunity that wasnt earned, rather lucked into because United and Mesa can’t staff the operation without dangling this carrot. To the good guys at Mesa that understand how fortunate they are to have this opportunity, I wish you all good luck in the interview and hope to see you on property soon. Thanks for the information. Can’t wait for the extreme gift of getting a interview after flying their passengers for 6+ years. Preaching to us about earning a job while you all are hiring CFI’s. Not all of us want to work for the dumpster fire that is united. |
Well... I would. And in the United forums there’s the thread where United pilots discredit and condemn the CFI-UAL program while qualified and hard working professionals can’t get a call.
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Originally Posted by deltajuliet
(Post 2556994)
Well... I would. And in the United forums there’s the thread where United pilots discredit and condemn the CFI-UAL program while qualified and hard working professionals can’t get a call.
I am mentoring/helping a few CRJ Capt's as we speak....one was told recently at a job fair that is 7000 TT and 2000 PIC 121 was on the high side and they prefer more along the lines around 3000TT :eek: Puzzle Palace never fails to amaze me.... |
Originally Posted by giggity37
(Post 2556978)
Thanks for the information. Can’t wait for the extreme gift of getting a interview after flying their passengers for 6+ years. Preaching to us about earning a job while you all are hiring CFI’s. Not all of us want to work for the dumpster fire that is united.
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Originally Posted by Sonny Crockett
(Post 2557014)
I am mentoring/helping a few CRJ Capt's as we speak....one was told recently at a job fair that is 7000 TT and 2000 PIC 121 was on the high side and they prefer more along the lines around 3000TT :eek: |
Originally Posted by giggity37
(Post 2556978)
Thanks for the information. Can’t wait for the extreme gift of getting a interview after flying their passengers for 6+ years. Preaching to us about earning a job while you all are hiring CFI’s. Not all of us want to work for the dumpster fire that is united.
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Originally Posted by PowderFinger
(Post 2557133)
Attitude and outlook on life can represent quite a challenge for some applicants ... Regardless of where they apply. Just saying.
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Originally Posted by Sonny Crockett
(Post 2557014)
I am mentoring/helping a few CRJ Capt's as we speak....one was told recently at a job fair that is 7000 TT and 2000 PIC 121 was on the high side and they prefer more along the lines around 3000TT :eek:
But sometimes the rep/'recruiter" at the job fair is a little out of touch so to speak. 2016 stats; Average TT 55XX Average PIC 29XX Average Turbine 48XX |
Originally Posted by giggity37
(Post 2557219)
That’s why southwest is a better company. You can’t determine good candidates with a stupid hogan test or by some hr guy/gal who isn’t a pilot. Pilot referals used to actually mean something. So many great guys/gals have been passed up and southwest has immediately picked them up. When almost half the flying is outsourced.... offering a “interview” after so many years at the sweat shop is laughable and one of the worst carrots in this industry.
Glad you made it to Southwest. Great outfit. |
Originally Posted by giggity37
(Post 2557219)
That’s why southwest is a better company. You can’t determine good candidates with a stupid hogan test or by some hr guy/gal who isn’t a pilot. Pilot referals used to actually mean something. So many great guys/gals have been passed up and southwest has immediately picked them up. When almost half the flying is outsourced.... offering a “interview” after so many years at the sweat shop is laughable and one of the worst carrots in this industry.
Have you ever wonder why you got turned down 2 times John. You should ask around, you will be surprised |
Originally Posted by Sniper66
(Post 2557804)
Have you ever wonder why you got turned down 2 times John.
You should ask around, you will be surprised |
Originally Posted by T28driver
(Post 2556089)
We still have zero hard numbers on what the CPP will be at Air Wisconsin, so I would treat the 10% number provided by the recruiter with extreme skepticism.
For those of us flying for United Express, the CPP is either going to end up as a winning lottery ticket or it will be a slow death march of understaffed brutal schedules. There really is no in between. It is in United’s best interests to make the CPP a massive success. Otherwise they are going to run out of people to fly RJ’s and provide feed. Or any information on when the details will be available? I agree 100% with what you said above “For those of us flying for United Express, the CPP is either going to end up as a winning lottery ticket or it will be a slow death march of understaffed brutal schedules. There really is no in between. It is in United’s best interests to make the CPP a massive success. Otherwise they are going to run out of people to fly RJ’s and provide feed.” |
Originally Posted by Skyler02
(Post 2562053)
Are there any new details on the Mesa CPP?
Or any information on when the details will be available? I agree 100% with what you said above “For those of us flying for United Express, the CPP is either going to end up as a winning lottery ticket or it will be a slow death march of understaffed brutal schedules. There really is no in between. It is in United’s best interests to make the CPP a massive success. Otherwise they are going to run out of people to fly RJ’s and provide feed.” |
Straight from the website:
Mesa Air Group Have a high school diploma or GED equivalent, you will not be eligible for hire at United until you have obtained a Bachelor’s degree from an accredited institution or obtained other applicable credentials acceptable to United Airlines Have a training performance record, employment record and history that is acceptable to United Airlines Complete at least twelve months of active service as a pilot with Mesa Airlines Complete a job fit assessment with a score that is acceptable to United Sign a release permitting United Airlines access to relevant work records on file with Mesa Airlines Successfully complete an interview with a representative of United Airlines United Airlines must be hiring pilots You must have flown either 2,000 hours as Pilot-in-Command or 3,000 hours total in service to Mesa Airlines Complete at least one initial qualification evaluation and one continuing qualification evaluation at Mesa Airlines Remain in continued compliance with the eligibility requirements listed above. Complete any professional development activities required by Mesa Airlines and United Airlines. Meet United Airlines new hire pilot minimum qualifications Satisfactorily complete other customary United pre-employment screening requirements like a background investigation and drug screening test You will not need to complete another interview but must receive a “Recommend” for hire by the United CPP Administrator and United’s Pilot Selection Board, after completing a final performance review of the standards set forth in this CPP program Even if we optimistically get 10% of future United new hire class spots, that's only around 50/year. There will be those too old to leave, too senior to want to leave, and those without degrees, but even then, how long will it take a new hire? |
Originally Posted by deltajuliet
(Post 2562297)
Straight from the website:
Mesa Air Group It still leaves some open to interpretation, but that's it so far. It'd be great if we could get to the nitty gritty of it. Even if we optimistically get 10% of future United new hire class spots, that's only around 50/year. There will be those too old to leave, too senior to want to leave, and those without degrees, but even then, how long will it take a new hire? |
Right. Sounds like they're done for summer and won't even have a real hiring projection for 2018 until May.
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Originally Posted by deltajuliet
(Post 2562297)
Straight from the website:
Mesa Air Group It still leaves some open to interpretation, but that's it so far. It'd be great if we could get to the nitty gritty of it. Even if we optimistically get 10% of future United new hire class spots, that's only around 50/year. There will be those too old to leave, too senior to want to leave, and those without degrees, but even then, how long will it take a new hire? And, of course, United’s hiring projection is a major factor. |
Originally Posted by Skyler02
(Post 2562373)
Yes. This is the detail we need. Is it going to be 10%? That’s important to know.
And, of course, United’s hiring projection is a major factor. I still think only 25% of our UAX pilots that qualify after requirements of a bachelor’s degree and an exempliary training/employment record is met. |
If it is only for UAX pilots, there’ll be a mutiny.
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Originally Posted by deltajuliet
(Post 2562383)
If it is only for UAX pilots, there’ll be a mutiny.
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The CPP is the strategy that United has in order to recruit pilots to its regional feeders. Companies flying as United Express are the bottom regionals of the industry. Hence, United is concern about staffing such regionals, and CPP is the best idea they have come up with. Don't forget that United plans to grow capacity, around 6 percent each year, for the next 3 years. This growth is based mainly on regionals. XJT's CPP is 25%, and XJT has only sent 100 pilots in 2 years of CPP. 50 a year, or 4 a month. If we parallel this numbers, at 10%, Mesa will send 20 pilots a year. If you are pilot with senority of 200, it may take you 10 years. Given that everybody qualifies and remains employed for such a long time.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...meback-445701/ |
Originally Posted by andili61
(Post 2562433)
The CPP is the strategy that United has in order to recruit pilots to its regional feeders. Companies flying as United Express are the bottom regionals of the industry. Hence, United is concern about staffing such regionals, and CPP is the best idea they have come up with. Don't forget that United plans to grow capacity, around 6 percent each year, for the next 3 years. This growth is based mainly on regionals. XJT's CPP is 25%, and XJT has only sent 100 pilots in 2 years of CPP. 50 a year, or 4 a month. If we parallel this numbers, at 10%, Mesa will send 20 pilots a year. If you are pilot with senority of 200, it may take you 10 years. Given that everybody qualifies and remains employed for such a long time.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...meback-445701/ |
Sign a release permitting United Airlines access to relevant work records on file with Mesa Airlines.
Just don't call in sick for the next six to eight years and you're in! ;) |
Originally Posted by andili61
(Post 2562433)
The CPP is the strategy that United has in order to recruit pilots to its regional feeders. Companies flying as United Express are the bottom regionals of the industry. Hence, United is concern about staffing such regionals, and CPP is the best idea they have come up with. Don't forget that United plans to grow capacity, around 6 percent each year, for the next 3 years. This growth is based mainly on regionals. XJT's CPP is 25%, and XJT has only sent 100 pilots in 2 years of CPP. 50 a year, or 4 a month. If we parallel this numbers, at 10%, Mesa will send 20 pilots a year. If you are pilot with senority of 200, it may take you 10 years. Given that everybody qualifies and remains employed for such a long time.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...meback-445701/ The Mesa pilots who are qualified will have moved on long before 10 years if United doesn’t hire them. And, it is my belief that only about 25% of our pilot base will meet United’s basic qualifications: a clean PRIA, no training or FAA failures, 4 year degree, etc. |
Originally Posted by calmwinds
(Post 2562458)
Mesa is already sending at least half that number now on an annual basis to United.
The Mesa pilots who are qualified will have moved on long before 10 years if United doesn’t hire them. And, it is my belief that only about 25% of our pilot base will meet United’s basic qualifications: a clean PRIA, no training or FAA failures, 4 year degree, etc. |
Originally Posted by andili61
(Post 2562504)
Well, when ALPA used to publish hiring numbers using pie charts, 45% of United new hires came from XJT. Then, CPP was implemented and that number reduced drastically. CPP is not a recruiting tool for United, but rather, a system to attract, retain, and control United's regionals staffing
If it is a tool to attract, retain and control their regional’s staffing, then I suspect the video claiming a pilot must be based in IAD or IAH to be accurate. Why would United want to help American attract, retain and control the regional pilots at American’s bases? |
Originally Posted by calmwinds
(Post 2562522)
Only time will tell for us. United hiring is supposed to increase as retirements and growth continue.
If it is a tool to attract, retain and control their regional’s staffing, then I suspect the video claiming a pilot must be based in IAD or IAH to be accurate. Why would United want to help American attract, retain and control the regional pilots at American’s bases? https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...meback-445701/ |
Originally Posted by calmwinds
(Post 2562522)
Only time will tell for us. United hiring is supposed to increase as retirements and growth continue.
If it is a tool to attract, retain and control their regional’s staffing, then I suspect the video claiming a pilot must be based in IAD or IAH to be accurate. Why would United want to help American attract, retain and control the regional pilots at American’s bases? |
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