Latest Mesa News... Straight From Paul Foley
06-17-2009, 02:29 PM
#101
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: Whatever my number lets me...
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by StrikeTime
This paragraph is irrelevant with what I wrote. Calling for unity and helping someone out doesn't necessarily involve putting 'money into a pile' like you say and 'promoting communism.' And since your implying you’re in it for yourself, you sound like the type that would be glad to cross a picket line. Who else is going to feed your family, right?
Noted, chief, I'll make sure to pass this paragraph on to each and every student.
Believe me, I understand these subjects Mr. Hotshot selfish pilot. But with an attitude like yours how will anyone be able to negotiate a better CBA.
I dislike the union just as much as you do. Today was actually the first day I could appreciate for what ALPA said in the hearings. Its UNITY that will help negotiate better pay rates Mr. Kramer.. Wouldn’t you know that from your Economics 101 class you talked about earlier?
Happy that they will be unemployed and looking for a job in a time where unemployment is 10%? Any other time.. maybe. Your pathetic. If its so easy why don't you do that, since there are so many problems for you in this industry?
As for the rest of the jibberish you wrote in your post, about communism, donating money, business practices, which, by the way has nothing to do what I wrote, I'll let you sit fat dumb and happy on it. I won’t feed the troll. Sounds like you just need to vent anyways.
Didn't I mention your one p***ed off person in my previous post? You really need a vacation.
Noted, chief, I'll make sure to pass this paragraph on to each and every student.
Believe me, I understand these subjects Mr. Hotshot selfish pilot. But with an attitude like yours how will anyone be able to negotiate a better CBA.
I dislike the union just as much as you do. Today was actually the first day I could appreciate for what ALPA said in the hearings. Its UNITY that will help negotiate better pay rates Mr. Kramer.. Wouldn’t you know that from your Economics 101 class you talked about earlier?
Happy that they will be unemployed and looking for a job in a time where unemployment is 10%? Any other time.. maybe. Your pathetic. If its so easy why don't you do that, since there are so many problems for you in this industry?
As for the rest of the jibberish you wrote in your post, about communism, donating money, business practices, which, by the way has nothing to do what I wrote, I'll let you sit fat dumb and happy on it. I won’t feed the troll. Sounds like you just need to vent anyways.
Didn't I mention your one p***ed off person in my previous post? You really need a vacation.
Why do you need a CBA anyway? Ever thought about being able to negotiate your own employment? or is it that you lull too easily and need to hide behind your lackey?!
p.s. Im on a vacation, for 6 weeks, my non unionized company affords me that, so you caught me at my "nice guy" time.
06-17-2009, 03:05 PM
#102
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,516
Originally Posted by macflyer
If you are suggesting that the mere existence of two companies, SWA and UPS, that for the time being seem to be successful under unionization, then I must concede that we respectfully differ in our points of view.
But you asked for two long-term successful companies that are unionized, and I gave you two.
While I'll concede that for the most part the need for unions in most industries has passed...some industries still have that need (I think aviation is one of them). Additionally, like it or not, there are companies out there with unionized labor that have managed to succeed in the marketplace over the course of decades.
I'd wager that far more jobs have been lost (in both the recent and distant past) as a direct result of inept/incompetent management than union bargaining.
06-17-2009, 03:14 PM
#104
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,516
Originally Posted by macflyer
Why do you need a CBA anyway? Ever thought about being able to negotiate your own employment? or is it that you lull too easily and need to hide behind your lackey?!
Airlines will not pay a premium for "better" pilots because all pilots do the same job (airplane safely point A to point B). You'd only be able to negotiate what the company thinks you are worth to do that task, and not a penny more. There's nobody in management watching the cockpit all the time, preventing an opportunity for one's unique talents/skills/abilities as an aviator to be displayed like there would be for someone in the legal, medical, financial, or managerial fields.
And when somebody else is willing to do the exact same job as you for less compensation than you, you'll lose your job.
Are you willing to accept that risk/reward?
Seriously man, ditch the airlines and come to bizav...when jobs are available. Sounds to me like you'd be MUCH happier...
06-17-2009, 03:20 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: http://rahcontractnow.org/
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by macflyer
good luck with your union and your and all of you efforts in trying to help the mesa guys,
I am not trying to help the Mesa guys out exclusively, where did you ever get that idea? I am trying to help this profession as a whole. I simply chimed in on this thread to address 'your happiness' with pilots getting furloughed.
I mean that sincerely. But I do think your thoughts are completely misguided and hence your efforts, if any, a waist.
And the efforts of George Washington were a waste too, correct?
Why do you need a CBA anyway? Ever thought about being able to negotiate your own employment? or is it that you lull too easily and need to hide behind your lackey?!
As a mass labor profession and a single individual within an organization providing employment to thousands of workers I would like to see you come close to making this a possibility. Again, if that is what you seek, find yourself another career. For the rest of us, it is not an option and we must act as a team.
p.s. Im on a vacation, for 6 weeks, my non unionized company affords me that, so you caught me at my "nice guy" time.
That's funny because you just mentioned you were frustrated in your previous post. I hope I didn't ruin your vacation.
06-17-2009, 03:33 PM
#106
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Originally Posted by dwightkschrute
Take a look outside. Capitalism and the free market idea have gotten us where we are now. A country plummeting into disaster. I'm not saying socialism or communism is the answer because no matter how great the idea that people get their greedy fingers on, it all falls apart eventually.
06-17-2009, 03:43 PM
#107
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: Whatever my number lets me...
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by StrikeTime
I am not trying to help the Mesa guys out exclusively, where did you ever get that idea? I am trying to help this profession as a whole. I simply chimed in on this thread to address 'your happiness' with pilots getting furloughed.
And the efforts of George Washington were a waste too, correct?
As a mass labor profession and a single individual within an organization providing employment to thousands of workers I would like to see you come close to making this a possibility. Again, if that is what you seek, find yourself another career. For the rest of us, it is not an option and we must act as a team.
That's funny because you just mentioned you were frustrated in your previous post. I hope I didn't ruin your vacation.
I know you're not george washington but you might be Obama!
Airlines are a business, like any other, they pay based on supply and demand. If you cant move freely to the next highest payer then the supply is artificially stable and they take advantage of that very fact.
for labor:
Mobility availability = free and competitive job market = better job.
immobility = lower demand and higher supply (artificially) = bad job
this can go two ways, either the cost of labor rises too much and the business shuts down or they take over the labor and life sucks as it does right now. there is no equilibrium.
I did say I am frustrated and I am because I have to work overseas for foreign airlines to make what I should be making at home.
06-17-2009, 03:44 PM
#108
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: Whatever my number lets me...
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by Mesabah
Whoa, the government has caused what we have here today, the free market did not put us into this mess. If the government were to step out and allow the free market to work, we would not be in this mess.
06-17-2009, 04:06 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 483
Originally Posted by dwightkschrute
Take a look outside. Capitalism and the free market idea have gotten us where we are now. A country plummeting into disaster. I'm not saying socialism or communism is the answer because no matter how great the idea that people get their greedy fingers on, it all falls apart eventually.
06-17-2009, 04:14 PM
#110
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Trade Slave
Posts: 24
Okay, I have to chime in here. I've read Sowell, I've studied economics, and I understand the self-regulating nature of a free market. But if you think a 100% pure, completely unfettered free market system is a good idea, then you don't understand this subject as well as you think you do.
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