Latest Mesa News... Straight From Paul Foley
#111
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Okay, I have to chime in here. I've read Sowell, I've studied economics, and I understand the self-regulating nature of a free market. But if you think a 100% pure, completely unfettered free market system is a good idea, then you don't understand this subject as well as you think you do.
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
You guys are basing all your arguments on a normal business. The airlines are not a normal business, they are a doomed to failure unless they have enough money to begin with to remain at a break even point...
#114
Paul Foley has done nothing but screw Mesa over. Why do u think Mesaba got rid of him!! Mesa picks up the people that other people fire that's how they are they don't care, whoever will do it for cheaper that's Mesa's motto.
#115
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
Just because an industry IS a certain way that doesn't make it the best way and if you know that unions exist in your business then dont be surprised, sad nor mad that you are in the unemployment line.
As to southwest, its a fairly young company and their future is looking not as bright as it once did. UPS, its a freighter with a completely different business model that differs from the passenger airline. That offers them a certain amount of temporary resilience towards market downfalls. They also compete against very few competitors, unlike the regional market.
You are right... Times are tough, and thats why the weak fail and the strong survive. Unions are a major weakness for any business. Used to be that what was good for GM was good for America, look at them now. Strong union put an end to Goliath (GM) as week unions have put an end to the "Airline Careers". You want to succeed, Compete. You want to be babied, you will be for sometime but eventually "mamma union" is going to get old and tired and will sell you under bridge for one more gasp of survival (pay cuts).
As to southwest, its a fairly young company and their future is looking not as bright as it once did. UPS, its a freighter with a completely different business model that differs from the passenger airline. That offers them a certain amount of temporary resilience towards market downfalls. They also compete against very few competitors, unlike the regional market.
You are right... Times are tough, and thats why the weak fail and the strong survive. Unions are a major weakness for any business. Used to be that what was good for GM was good for America, look at them now. Strong union put an end to Goliath (GM) as week unions have put an end to the "Airline Careers". You want to succeed, Compete. You want to be babied, you will be for sometime but eventually "mamma union" is going to get old and tired and will sell you under bridge for one more gasp of survival (pay cuts).
As with the auto industry and others, unions are not what brought the demise. Let's look at the auto industry. Labor did not come up with poor designs, lousy performance and the things that drove the customer base away. Management decisions did. Labor did not overextend on credit lines and bring in investors with unsustainable numbers. Management did and investors bent on greed, readily bought in and then went to AIG and took out insurance policies to cover them if they failed.
Legacy costs of labor will happen in 10 or 20 years at the new low cost non union plants as well. If labor was raking in the money, they would be the ones with the Mcmansions, lake and ski villas and the like.
Labor does and has made mistakes. They have also attempted to bring about positive change. Your inability to present both sides of an issue make it apparent that your labor education is limited to what you have been told. It will be interesting to see your mindset in 15 or so years after you have some experience.
As you said in a later post, you're on a six week vacation. Excellent. So you're either working in a country that mandates time off, or you are enjoying something that was gained because unions fought for employees to have such arcane and dastardly things as day's off, medical care, vacations...things you take for granted or as entitlements.
Perhaps while on vacation you can catch up on your reading. I'd suggest Websters...the letter "w"...and the difference in the definitions of "waist" and "waste."
After all, if you want to be taken as an expert, knowing the correct spelling and usage is always a good thing....................
#118
They did pick up Joe Cespool from RAH. I agree 100%.
#119
Your arguments in this post and succeding ones while interesting, indicate a fundamental lack of experience in the industry and quite possibly little if any.
As with the auto industry and others, unions are not what brought the demise. Let's look at the auto industry. Labor did not come up with poor designs, lousy performance and the things that drove the customer base away. Management decisions did. Labor did not overextend on credit lines and bring in investors with unsustainable numbers. Management did and investors bent on greed, readily bought in and then went to AIG and took out insurance policies to cover them if they failed.
Legacy costs of labor will happen in 10 or 20 years at the new low cost non union plants as well. If labor was raking in the money, they would be the ones with the Mcmansions, lake and ski villas and the like.
Labor does and has made mistakes. They have also attempted to bring about positive change. Your inability to present both sides of an issue make it apparent that your labor education is limited to what you have been told. It will be interesting to see your mindset in 15 or so years after you have some experience.
As you said in a later post, you're on a six week vacation. Excellent. So you're either working in a country that mandates time off, or you are enjoying something that was gained because unions fought for employees to have such arcane and dastardly things as day's off, medical care, vacations...things you take for granted or as entitlements.
Perhaps while on vacation you can catch up on your reading. I'd suggest Websters...the letter "w"...and the difference in the definitions of "waist" and "waste."
After all, if you want to be taken as an expert, knowing the correct spelling and usage is always a good thing....................
As with the auto industry and others, unions are not what brought the demise. Let's look at the auto industry. Labor did not come up with poor designs, lousy performance and the things that drove the customer base away. Management decisions did. Labor did not overextend on credit lines and bring in investors with unsustainable numbers. Management did and investors bent on greed, readily bought in and then went to AIG and took out insurance policies to cover them if they failed.
Legacy costs of labor will happen in 10 or 20 years at the new low cost non union plants as well. If labor was raking in the money, they would be the ones with the Mcmansions, lake and ski villas and the like.
Labor does and has made mistakes. They have also attempted to bring about positive change. Your inability to present both sides of an issue make it apparent that your labor education is limited to what you have been told. It will be interesting to see your mindset in 15 or so years after you have some experience.
As you said in a later post, you're on a six week vacation. Excellent. So you're either working in a country that mandates time off, or you are enjoying something that was gained because unions fought for employees to have such arcane and dastardly things as day's off, medical care, vacations...things you take for granted or as entitlements.
Perhaps while on vacation you can catch up on your reading. I'd suggest Websters...the letter "w"...and the difference in the definitions of "waist" and "waste."
After all, if you want to be taken as an expert, knowing the correct spelling and usage is always a good thing....................
The labors wont have mcmantions, EVER, because they are labor. But that doesn't mean their cost is less then a handful of CEO who do have what they negotiate and is the going rate on the free market. There is far more labor then there is management. Your argument is simply mathematically baseless.
I worked in the U.S. industry for nearly a decade, enough experience to know what’s wrong with it, and now I have 2 months of paid vacation yearly because I was able to negotiate it personally and wasn’t tied to a seniority number. I dont work in a socialized country nor for a unionized company. I love where I work and I will work for them as hard and as long as they take care of me. Thats the way it should be. I am not one to send my lackey union to do my negotiating or fighting like Mesa, Comair, or very other unionized airline in the U.S..
As far as spelling... Give it a break dude... may be you should be a first grade teacher or something. Personally I dont give a damn about spelling debates with you, but I find it exceptionally funny that YOU criticize my spelling while you misspell “ succeding” in your first paragraph. The word you’re looking for is SUCCEEDING. Maybe you should start with letter “S”. Very funny and very pitiful.
I’m far from an expert my friend, but I’m also far from being a sheep and an idiot.
Good luck to all in Mesa and hope there is a lesson to be had and also a brighter future for all of you.
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