sidestep

I can guarantee that people equally dislike flying with you.

Unlike yourself, skillet is actually trying to advance his career by trying to going to a mainline.

sidestep

As a haole who lived on Oahu for 8 years - GOOD LUCK in Waianae! You can get cheap rent in South Central L.A., but it doesn't mean its a viable option. Salt Lake is a MUCH better option, but the rule of thumb on Oahu is for anything decent it is $1000 per room. ($2000/2br, $3000/3br)

Coming from an airline pilot, this kind of argument is really scary. Do I expect sympathy from a maid/cop/cfi, no. But after $40,000+ in out of pocket training costs I absolutely expect to be better compensated than one. Don't you?!

Go! Has only been operating since since June 2006. There are quite a few F.O.s (right around the upgrade line) that were hired prior to go! starting..

sidestep

To get back to the original intent of the thread:

My advice to anyone thinking about working for Mesa (or entering the airline industry at the regional level in general) is figure out what your long term goals are.

If you want to fly for a regional for the length of your career (many do) then Mesa might not be a bad fit. However as a mostly fee-per-departure contract carrier, Mesa (like almost all other regionals) is at the mercy of their mainline partners. Therefore in my opinion it is highly risky proposition to call a regional (even the seemingly better ones Expressjet/asa/skywest) a career.

If you want to fly for a major/mid-major then go to a place where you can get qualified the fastest. For the time being that still means getting regional PIC.

Mesa-

Some Pros:
- Great pilot group
- modern in-demand fleet
- diverse bases
- decent pay for the top captains

Some Cons:
-never properly staffed - lots of junior assigning
-constant contract violations met with 'grieve it' from management
-long upgrade times
-diverse bases (i was IN-voluntarily displaced 4 times in my 5 years)

No one can predict the future so make your decision based on the best information you have. Remember, in this industry you will only know if you made the right career decisions after you retire..

Sniper

Agreed.

The reality is, any place that is considered 'good' (for a regional) is going to have career guys camping out at the top of the list. If you're looking to upgrade, those 'lifers' (anyone with over 10 years at a regional is a lifer, no matter what they tell you - they're in denial themselves, usually) are all in the seat you need to be in to get the PIC.

I was talking to a group of Silverwings FO's recently. All 1900's and Saabs. Guess what most of them wanted to do - get Saab FO. Now, I'm not privy to the details of Silverwings, but if everyone wants to fly the Saab, then you should fly the 1900. The goal is to get turbine PIC, not hang out in the slightly cushier Saab (it has a bathroom, a FA, etc. Nobody looks at your resume and says, "Oh wow! Saab time! We're going to hire that guy for sure. It was up in the air if it was 1900 time, but Saab time, wow (nobody does this for 747 time either, BTW, except the contracts that require time on type when the type is a 747).

Same logic at Mesa. All you guys 'poo-poo'ing Hawaii - fools. Why'd you go to Mesa? If it was the for the PHX base and western flying, you should have gone to Skywest. Whoops! Skywest had more west coast flying before Mesa started shrinking (DEN, GJT, all the ESAS 1900 bases gone), and they still do now too - hence the name, Skywest. The rest of you went to Mesa to get someone to pay you to get the qualifications to go to a mainline carrier. Well, guess what - the place to be is Hawaii!!! Anywhere you can get PIC time is the place to be! For someone to choose to remain a FO for 'QOL' @ Mesa - are you kidding? There is no QOL as a Mesa FO (or any regional FO - yes, they really are all pretty much the same. The truth hurts, huh?). 'Sulkair' - go fly in Hawaii. I'm pretty sure you can hold CA there. Get the PIC and get out. Guys getting HNL TDY, room and food in HNL - cry me a river. Unless it was involuntary TDY, you bid it, so, you got it. Believe it or not, HNL CA was actually senior to IAD CA @ Mesa when it first opened. I'd love to do a month of Mesa TDY HNL FO - seriously. MY wife would kill me though.

For those starting in the industry, my best advice - scour the forums for whatever company is looked down upon by RJ FO's . . . then apply there. You'll get your Turbine PIC fastest, and, if you can stand the nasty looks from 'holier than thou' RJ FO's in the terminal and the empty vitriol of the 'regional forum', you'll punch out to a mainline carrier or a foreign gig fastest. When you walk through the terminal and cruise the forums 5-6 years later, you can see the same guys, still RJ FO's or junior CA's at 'hot shot regional' complaining about their lives and putting your former employer down to make themselves feel better. They'll do anything to get that great job, the one you already have - well, anything except admit they made a bad decision by loosing focus on the most important goal of an RJ pilot - leaving.

skillett

I'm not a career guy at Mesa. As you know with the 65 rule and the economic downturn the hiring has not been the greatest since 2007. I'm sitting at 3000 121 PIC so I don't need to re-uprgrade. Although I did have Cpt. HNL bid, I did not get awarded. I can live out there on Captain wages, FO wages would be tough. I would have to sell my car to make it work. And the reason I was TDY out there is I do surf, dive and am just good all around waterman. My car had broke down and I needed 3500 to fix it and did. And I don't understand what you do? Are you a regional guy on here contradicting yourself or a mainline guy trolling on regional forums. My applications are in and the interviews are coming. So if I do get hired, I can promise you I won't be trolling on the regional websites anymore.

skillett

If you guys would read some of my post instead of trying to bash me I am trying to inform new hires to make the right decision. Jr. Cpt. hire date HNL mid 2005. Thats almost 8 years to upgrade. If Hawaii does close, you can expect that upgrade time to go back over 9 years, even with the new aircraft. Alot of captains are not going to leave this company. Why would they? There making good money, live in base and have some job security, especially with the new US Airways contract. So don't plan on coming here and jumping into any PIC soon. There will be alot of attriition but it won't be out of the left seat. Once based on the mainland life isn't that bad other than the pay. Expect to work alot on reserve, that's a given. Mesa keeps the place understaffed to keep the payroll low. Right now things aren't too bad and the company is trying to bring in new hires to cover the expanding fleet. But that doesn't mean that things will stay that way. I was here in 2007 when guys were putting on street clothes before they got off the airplane because a crew scheduler was waiting to JRA you at the top of the jetway. They were crazy times. With most of our FO's downgraded captains with PIC. There could be another mass exodus when the hiring really picks up. I don't think any regional is prepared for that kind of attrition but Mesa is in a bad position because such a high percentage of us are qualified for mainline jobs. Mesa is good if your not in rush to get PIC and get out. Yes, you will have to grieve to the Union for pay and getting screwed over that's just Mesa. And the schedules can get brutal with people leaving but you will still have the 30 hours max a week and new FAA rest rules coming out that will help. Mesa is not the worst but it is still a regional airline and there are other places that are better.

skillett

And now for the positive:

We fly big regional jets.

We are approved for the IPAD electronic flight kit.

Great group of people in the Training Department.

Great Chief Pilots that will go to bat for you.

Great Captains you will fly with that have alot of experience.

Schedules not to bad on the mainland. (for now)

Preferential Bidding System. But that is not really good for junior guys and gals.

Some of you guys and gals might get sent to Hawaii. With a new job that can be exciting and there are rooms to rent. With good public transportation. The rest will get Chicago and Washington Dulles with a few slipping to Charlotte. Depends on the the next standing bid coming out. Like I said not a bad place if your looking to get cozy for a while and wait for the PIC. Regional FO pay is not good. Just spend your money wisely.

maxjet

How did you come to make all of those assumptions about me? I make more than 3 times what you speak of. Do I think that I am paid approperiately? Hell NO! What my point is, is that you can dwell on the negatives and make you and those around you miserable or you can minimize the unpleasant (does not mean you accept any part of it) and focus on the positive. I can give you a real life example. When I am in Nairobi I find that a lot of poor people there have smiles on their faces. When I am in New Delhi I find no poor people with smiles on their faces. Why? IMO it is because in Nairobi everybody is poor and they do not know a better way so they are happy with the blessings that they perceive they have. In India the "untouchables" are surrounded by the trappings of wealth with expensive cars going by etc. They tend to focus on what they see in front of them that they don't have, well that and the fact that they are actually starving. It is all in how you see yourself. If you have a negative attitude for very long it will become the norm for you and I can guarentee that when you go for that interview at United, Delta, or American the HR people will pick up on it. Having been in law enforcement for 20+ years I am enjoying my career at a job where I frankly don't think I work very hard. That being said, I still think I am underpaid. What am I doing about it? Having a great time and supporting my Union in anyway I can. Fortunately for me I have been through some very dark times and I know how bad things can really get. I don't like to fly with guys with your attitude but I will not allow you to take the fun out of this job for me either. Rant over.

skillett

I am a pretty happy person that is a very fufilled outside of work. Most everyone that knows me enjoys flying with me because I'm pretty damn funny and laid back. Like I said, I come here to get some steam out and give people information. Yeah your making 3 times more than me? I bet you have a good attitude. I have to borrow money from co-workers sometimes because I run out before I get paid. I rent a room, just a room. 3 years flight instructing, 3 years night cargo and 8 at Mesa. 14 YEARS with a degree. And I hate flying with guys like you that are making three times what I make and and say I have an attitude problem ON A FORUM. Outside of this forum I don't like to bring people down. But on here it's fair game. I promise I won't have a problem on the interview, I will charm the pants off of them. And leave your story about how to be HAPPY for the documentaries on netflix. You sound like a boring robot, what do I do? Support my UNION and have a great time. Your kidding right? Maybe your so happy because you don't know what fun is. Like the people in Nairobi.

slough

Is Mesa interviewing off the street yet? Has anyone heard from them after applying on airline apps? Haven't heard a peep from them.