Sputnik

Which is why most airlines no longer have pensions, instead putting money in 401k accounts. In the pilots' names.

So what is your point exactly?

Also note continual attempts to reduce mil retiree pensions and healthcare

Sputnik

Im not sure its quite so black and white, but love to see your numbers.

My take was it depended on individual risk tolerance. If I die tomorrow and my wife lives to expected age, huge win. Other scenarios, not quite such a win.

My CFP father in law ran the numbers for what it would cost to purchase an equivalent annuity and concluded that it was an extremely good deal. If you are not an annuity fan (quite reasonable position) then this is a pointless observation.

I really think it comes down to individual tolerance, no one size fits all answer. Though I agree whole life sucks.

BFMthisA10

That's really what it comes down to, yes. From another angle, consider that actuarial tables typically show a retiring military officer outliving their spouse by a year or two. Would that change your calculus.
Another fun exercise: take half of the calculated SBP payment and shop around for a term policy. Then take the other half and invest. What's the size of the egg at the end of the term policy? Probably enough to float it's own annuity structure from there on out.
Exercise two: if the military spouse is a working professional, then its a no brainer. SBP made sense for the homemaker, but that premium invested for just 10 years is enough to crush the original return. Assuming you live that long and you two can afford it.

Sputnik

I guess I consider it insurance in case I die soon after retiring.

An emotional way of looking at it is that I don't want my pension to die with me, I want to leave it to my family. Not very logical, but there you go.

I'm in the third year of retirement, which means I can cancel it. Need to run the numbers again.

cliffnd

Another option is to get SBP for your kids only. Relatively cheap ($13/month with a 2 year old as my youngest) and it keeps the pension for the family until the youngest is 21ish or there abouts.


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Sliceback

Early 1990's. Flying with a 17 yr separated UASF guy. Aggressor, F-16 Ops O, FWS, etc, etc, up for squadron commander. He bailed. Just coming off a Hdq tour. He was assigned by TAC commander (Creech?) to do a study and show guys why they'd be better off staying in the USAF vs separating. Doing the study it hit him like a ton of bricks...as a 17 yr O-5 (?) he was better off leaving. The pay off was greater then 17 yrs. He left. Creech has was stunned.

IDK what today's break even point is but it's probably closer to 20 yrs than 10 yrs.

Hacker15e

The copy-of-a-copy spreadsheet that made its way around my fighter squadron in '99 showed that a guy that separated at 17 years and went to the majors out-earned the guy who stayed 3 more years to get a retirement to the tune of over $1 mil in lifetime earnings.

Of course, that spreadsheet didn't take 9/11, age 65, mergers, or the Recession into consideration.

I wonder what those "real" income numbers look like for those guys who left then.

KC10 FATboy

I don't know anyone who wants to stay in, guard/reserve or active duty. Nor do I know anyone in the airlines who wishes that they would have stayed in -- only a rare Captain here or there. (they have no idea what it has become).

I value working in an organization that respects me and pays me for my professional skills and judgement.

I don't value working in an organization where we spend thousands of man hours on EPRs/OPRs only to see them given maybe a 30 second quick glance during the promotion hustle. Or you didn't get promoted because the writer sucked or you didn't get that new buzzword. Or where someone who isn't even rated or done anything operational held in a higher regard than someone who is out there operationally getting the job done while in extreme hazardous situations. And you wonder why I got out?

I also don't value working for an organization which treats me, a 20+ year officer and 40-year old, the same as an 18-year old E-1.

I value working for an organization where I can pick up the phone or satcom, call the dispatcher, voice concerns over an issue and work with him/her to alleviate the offending condition. Most of the time the dispatchers are welcome to hear what we found.

I don't value flying for an organization where there's regulations upon regulations, government books after government books, supplements after supplements. Many of them conflict with one another. Yet, the aircraft commander is responsible for everything and if goes wrong, the unit commander throws you under the bus.

More so, I don't value an organization that creates silly ORM worksheets, where if we were honest on the score, would mean at least moderate or high for nearly everything we do. Then when you do the right thing and up channel the information, you're overruled by someone in the chain and have the ORM artificially reduced and/or told to go shut up and color.

I value working for an organization which reduces the paperwork as much as possible and has an easy to use expense/trip reporting system. This way we can focus on rest or the mission.

I don't value working for an organization where the entire orders process, pre-travel DTS voucher, post-travel DTS voucher, and then actually getting paid is so cumbersome and out date that I end up wasting most of my time on it. Also, it is insulting when the USAF asks me to check my accounts to ensure I was paid, which I was, because their systems still show my vouchers to be outstanding. Incompetence.

I value my time off with family and friends. This is why I bailed.

I value what I do outside of the USAF, knowing my efforts mean the difference between someone getting home to see their kids wedding, or perhaps a last moment goodbye before a loved one passes, or flying to locations where critical cancer drugs with incredibly short half-lives are shipped to their needy patients.

I don't value an organization that has been dropping bombs on hajis for more than 20 damn years. What the heck are we doing over there? It isn't working. Plus our country can't afford it.

I value an organization which consistently tries to do things better and for less.

I don't value an organization where if you don't use it, you lose it. And being called in back to work late on September 30th because we just received $65,000 into our account and we need to blow it. I don't see how that helps the mission or the tax payers. I also don't value an organization where when that rare commander speaks up and says whats on everyones' mind, ends up getting replaced and fired.

You're right, the decision to stay or go comes down to what you value.

The USAF enterprise is broken on so many levels. I am amazed we can get anything done today.

I suggest firing and replacing many USAF Generals with a few Army, Navy, and USMC Generals -- similar to the tv show Wife Swap.

Sliceback

This guy was going to become a points only reservist, at a minimum, to get his 20 yrs.

After years of chasing his career he enjoyed drinking beer and having sand between his toes while he was 'working' at the beach.

Hobbit64

With all due respect to an epic rant (Job Well Done or BZ in Squidward parlance).....
You absolutely, positively DO NOT want the senior Army leadership for a CO Swap.
Some of the issues you decry now were prevalent in the Active Army in the late 90's....
In one week, you'd be wearing two piece flight suits while riding in the back of a clapped out Hummer wearing your K-Pot (in case you fall out) with a mean cammo face paint design on your way to the field to practice putting up GP Medium tents and conducting Mopp 4 drills in a 5 meter interval chow line.
Hellfire engagement TTP's?...BLAH!, We need to be 'Proficient' in our field tasks on the ppt slides!
I recently read some current Active guys' posts and they are the exact same issues people like me brought up in almost 2 decades ago. There's a reason the RW to regional path is gonna take a bite out of the force. I asked some senior folks if they're adjusting for it.... Huh?! What do you mean?
My opinion is that those who CAN make a difference can't comprehend why they should regardless of how many facts you present and wouldn't risk their perch after eating the company stew for so many years.
THE Best CDR I ever had (USMA grad) got it and tried to make a change supported by data, experience and persuation at a PME course. He is a smart dude.... The Army's schools house MGB jumped him.

To me, it was like trying to explain the color blue to a blind man.
Sad to hear y'all are in the same boat.