Synixman

In direct answer of your question if you want to be an airline guy, my list would be VFA, P8s, E6s, E2C2, Helos. I say VFA for simple reason they probably won't have to take a second sea tour and the Navy is at least trying to fix their community's woes. I'm a Helo to VT IP, so I'm mildly relevant to the question.

Then, whatever you get, shut the heck up and don't tell anyone. When you get to your squadron, don't tell a soul about your future plans until you've got shore orders. Gone are the days you could squeak by with an MP out of the fleet and go to CNATRA, although that stigma still hangs around.

I'm not questioning your work ethic or priorities, but just saying be extra careful about career planning beyond being the best damn JO wherever you end up.

Grumble

This... 1000x over.

If you’re looking for an easy job and a family life in any community you need to DOR right now, and I’m not even being flippant about that. You’re in for a rude awakening.

To reiterate, every VFA guy I know has been called by every airline they’ve applied to. P3/E6 guys most likely will finish out a tour in a non flying billet with out solid paperwork and some luck/negotiating. Most of the ones I know had to either find a set of orders to get recurrent or slum it at a regional for a bit. Think you won’t go to the boat in these communities? Think again... you just won’t be going off the pointy end. (Enjoy that three year tour as a the V2 divo!) Boat life as a JO in a fleet squadron was one of the best times in my life, anyone that says it sucks shoudlve joined the Air Force (you do know you’re in the Navy right?). Career timing for VFA leaves you right about at MSR when you’re done with that shore tour too.

Tannhauser621

Reread my response to the last person who insinuated I was “lookin for the easy route”. I’m not putting Tacair, because there are a dozen other 22 year old ensigns who are more dedicated, gung-ho, whatever you want it call it, about Tacair. Why would I sign up for something that I kind of think would be cool, when the dude next to me would give his left nut for a shot to be the next Top Gun. I’ve done well in primary, I have the grades, but I’m not going to take an opportunity like that away from a dude who wants it 30 million times more than me.

Secondly, I have no issue with being on a boat. It sounds like a blast and part of the reason Helo dudes have such a rewarding career; all your best friends in a close quarters for 9 months. My experience in the Marines taught me that’s how best friends are made... but I’m looking for the airlines. Hence the predicament, and my reason to post.

Tannhauser621

Thanks for the response. I will definitely keep all that in my mind.

Question, how hard is it to get VT orders from a helo background? I’ve genuinely enjoyed primary and would like to be an instructor.

Otterbox

Then why did you chose to be a pilot instead of a SWO or NFO? I’m sure there are 100s of folks who wanted to be a pilot more than you... why’d you take a slot away from them? The Half measured enthusiasm argument isn’t making much sense and doesn’t match up with your stated end goal.

I always used to tell folks to never make selection choices based on perceived airline hiring potentional. A lot of my instructors in Primary and DHs went VP/VQ back in the day with those ambitions and ended up spending the lost decade trapped in communities in the Navy they resented and had no way out of since the airlines weren’t really hiring much from 9/11 to 2014ish.

The #1 way to go directly from a flying tour in the Navy to a major airline is flying tacair. Due to the length of the pipeline you either won’t have a traditional disassociated sea tour where you won’t fly (think CAG staff) or you’ll be able to leave directly from a shore tour.

Every other community is going to expect a 12-24 month non flying tour prior to your MSR which will force you to go regionals for 6-36 months (I’ve seen the full range for folks who leave military aviation non flight current... the lower hours the longer the time at the regionals).

The other downside of VP/VQ/helo is the Detailer are only mandated to give you three flying tours- JO, DH and CO tour. Only one of those tours happen before your MSR. With NAE stepping up to take 68% of all generic line officer staffing billets to make up for surface and subsurface community retention problems and the UAS expansion into NAE you’re starting to see more instances where folks are only getting one flying tour before they get out. Those folks are definitely regional bound for a long haul unless they can snag big wing flying in a reserve/Guard unit.

The absolute worst part about squadron life is all the made up busy work that you do in a home cycle to legitimize things like the readiness matrix, Battle E submissions, Front office fitreps and O-4 fitreps. TONS of long hours, short notice dets and very little sense of reward since you’re not on deployment. You work hardest when you’re on home cycle and your family never understands why you’re working so hard because you’re not on deployment and are “home” so therefore should be home with them much more. VQ(T) doesn’t deploy in the traditional sense so there’s very little reward for the effort and quality of life seems to suffer as the community leaderships drive their squadrons into the ground trying to display relivancy. I’ve never met a anyone who was not community golden child who had a positive experience with the community. The way you’re focused so much on the airlines, it will be highly unlikely that you’ll end up as a community golden child...

For quality of hours (100% PIC time vs 25-35% PIC time) SEA/SHORE flying billet opportunity and ability to transition from the Navy flight current directly to the majors your selection card should look:

J1/J2
E-2 (if it’s back to being its own pipeline selection again)
VP

It used to be you only got to put your top 3 choices down on your selection card and the old civilian guy at CNATRA did his best to get you one of those three choices. Don’t put something on there you wouldn’t be okay with.

Having had the opportunity to interact with many folks from multiple communities, I’d say helo pilots are generally happier in their community than VQ(T) pilots, P-3/EP-3 pilots and E-2 pilots, but not P-8 pilots, jet pilots and C-2 pilots (in that order).

Good luck.

Tannhauser621

Thanks again for the perspective, but with all due respect, just because I’m not gung-ho tacair doesn’t mean I’m not gung ho naval aviation. I’m absolutely hung-go Navy pilot, however I have career aspirations to the airlines and I absolutely should factor that into my decision; hence why I’m here. Full disclosure, I’m gung ho VPs since day one. The mission and airframe have been a constant draw since I was getting my masters. To say I should have gone SWO, etc is just ridiculous. I get it; Tacair guys have best chances to the airlines due to currency. But again for the 3rd time I’m not going to select something my heart isn’t completely in when there are kids here who will give their left nut for it. At almost 30 years old I’m confident in my ability to say something isn’t for me. Mind blowing, but I’m ok not flying jets. Thanks.

Otterbox

Okay that makes more sense, and nice to see you finally say that. Every flight student I ever encountered new what their first choice was. Glad to see you’re not completely passive.

If you want more sense of reward and “fun” during your Navy time, or really enjoyed the VFR flying and hated instruments in Primary, go helos. If you’re mission oriented shoot for 60Rs over 60s. R actually get to do more of their mission sets where the S guys just get to practice a lot and haul mail and people around the strike group.

If you’re content being detached from the Navy life and like the IFR flying you’ve been exposed to in Primary then you’ll be fine going E6s.

Packrat

Another reason to avoid helos. My personal experience:

1st fleet tour in a West Coast squadron that was both sea duty and FRS. When shore duty came around all I asked for was VT to get some fixed wing time. You'd think it would be pretty easy. NOT.

All I got offered was shore duty as an IP in the same squadron FRS side or Pt. Mugu as a SAR pilot/NATOPS Officer. It worked out though. At the time they were deathly short of fixed wing guys for the station C-12. I got a lot of Multi-engine time there eventually went TAR in VR and got a couple thousand hours in the C-9. Then to the airlines.

Some good advice above. DON'T TELL ANYONE YOU'RE SHOOTING FOR THE AIRLINES.

They'll know, but don't be blatant about it. Good luck in whatever you get.

Grumble

If you want VP, the go for it. Stop with the “what’s gonna get me to the airlines” BS because in 10 years when you have the option to get out, the landscape will be totally different. OBTW if you go VP, good chance you’ll either be non current (shooter tour!) or flying BAMS or another UAS by that time.

When I selected, I put Jets (E2 was its own pipeline in those days), Helos and left the third slot blank. I joined the Navy to go to sea and see the world. I also knew I wanted to end up at the airlines at some point but I would figure that out later. There are plenty of helo guys at the airline I fly for and quite a few in my new hire class.

Do what you want RIGHT NOW not what you think you should do.... that advice will serve you well (it did me) your whole career. The guys that always took the orders they think they should were always the most miserable.

If you want the best of both worlds, I would go E2/C2 if I were in your shoes knowing what I know now. (Props are slower, you build more time, not even being funny about that) We all thought the NFO retreads were crazy for wanting to go that route when I was a stud. After my first cruise I realized they were geniuses. VP guys don’t know jack sht about perdiem compared to the C2 guys!

Tannhauser621

Good perspective. Ya I’ve actually enjoyed instruments thoroughly and would consider it my strong point. It’s like a challenge to me. Weird but I enjoy it. I will definitely factor that in.