Adlerdriver

All good points. If you're saying an ANG fighter job might allow someone a competitive resume sooner or with lower total time than your average vanilla product of the civilian track, I think I can agree with that.

Aside from my issues with going part time as a low time fighter wingman, my only point of contention was the implication that the ANG fighter path is realistically a faster option.

Adlerdriver

Too late to correct above, but I didn’t meaner to include “sooner” in my statement. That would make no sense based on my previous opinions.

KTM1524

So from what I’ve read, the overall consensus on this thread is:

1. Military is the best possible route for the reasons of not going 100k in debt, getting top notch flight training and experience, and having the greatest chance to get hired on by a major in less time than the civilian route would take (may be wrong about that last point so correct me if I am)

2. Flying for a heavy unit would be much more beneficial for me. It would take longer to actually start flying fighters and I would get more hours flying heavies than fighters anyways. Therefore would make it longer for me to be able to eventually fly for an airliner/cargo.

3. Flying heavies gives me more multi engine time, which from what I understand, is more important than center thrust aircraft regardless of the mission complexity of fighters etc etc

I want to serve guys so don’t think I’m just saying this just for the money, but like I said, I’m 24 and I need to start making money to support a wife and eventually a family. Having said that, does anyone know how much a heavy unit pilot flying full-time for ANG makes? I’ve researched online and had all different conflicting reports on it but nothing for sure.

Work4life

1) Civilian track is the quickest way to the majors, in my opinion. Of course, you'd have to pay big dollars for training. If your goal it strictly getting on with majors in min time, I'd skip the military all together. Using the military to gain flying experience is great but Uncle Sam will get his money's worth out of you, active duty or guard/reserves. I don't bleed red, blue, and white but your desire to "serve" has to be greater than flying cool jets. Military life in general takes a toll on families. Remember, we are always at war somewhere.

2) You'd accrue flight time significantly quicker flying heavies vs. fighters.

3) There was a time this statement was true but not in this day and age. V1 cuts and single engine work is a no brainer. Airline flying is simple point A to point B flying. I don't mean to turn this into a fighter vs. heavy argument but leading a 4 ship mission in real combat is far more challenging than flying a Boeing or an Airbus from Dallas to JFK. When it comes to military flight time, I don't think the airlines care as long as you meet the minimums and have the desired turbine PIC hours in a fixed wing.

I hope your wife has a job that can put food on the table. The desire to serve is what you need in order to get through the tough times in the military, both as active duty and weekend warriors alike.
All I ever wanted was to be an airline pilot as a kid. In pilot training, I thought I wanted heavies so that I can get on with the airlines quicker. That is, until I flew with a reserve T-6 IP (former fighter pilot) who was also an airline pilot and the rest is history. Good thing I enjoyed pulling Gs and formation flying. I wouldn't change a thing if I had to do it all over again but if I were in your shoes, I'd choose a heavy unit. I'm no expert when it comes to the guard/reserves but I do know that you are on active orders once you start training (OTS, UPT, RTU/FTU, etc.) and until you are fully mission ready/seasoned pilot, which I'm going to guess is going to be about 3-4 years. As far as how much a 2LT makes these days, you'd have to look up the pay scales online which is readily available. When you get to UPT, I highly recommend living on base. You'll get a house instead of single officer's quarters since you are married, at least that was the case when I was there many moons ago. Hope this helps.

rickair7777

Historically it's not that simple. It's been very hard to predict when, if ever, a civilian while get called. Unless you pick up a coveted but rare LCA slot, or have an affirmative action ticket, it's frankly a crapshoot. Also if you miss your "sweet spot" as a civilian your odds actually start to decline as you build more experience (depends on the major).

There are things you can do to improve your odds, but other than LCA nothing is much of a sure thing.

Current market forces will probably minimize the inconsistency, but it's still a risk. Military training will force you to become what airlines want (both pilot and whole person), and they will largely take it at face value... I can easily predict when most military pilots will get called based on their experience and currency.

Work4life

The last time I checked, great majority of airline pilots are white males (me included) so let's not bring up affirmative action. Having said that, I don't believe in affirmative action especially in our line of work. It should solely be based on qualifications and desirability but I digress.
I agree with your statement regarding the "desirability" factor of a military pilot but I still don't think it's the quickest way to the airlines. Granted there are a lot more civilian trained pilots than military but through hard work, a solid plan, and networking, you can make it to the majors before 30. For a military guy, that's nearly impossible. The only way I can see this happen is to finish college by age 21-22, get picked up by a heavy guard/reserve unit, complete OTS and UPT by 23-24, fly your butt off and be on the fast track to AC/IP, AND then you may have a chance at landing a job at the majors before 30.
Military pilots are a known quantity and the airlines like that but with HR leading the hiring these days, they seem to focus more on diversity and community service rather than aforementioned qualities. Getting back on subject, all of my military buds who've separated/retired got on with the big 3, FedEx, Alaska, or SWA. I think the key is to keep your nose clean and be able to show progression on your resume.

headhunter

Another thing to keep in mind: you only have a limited time to join and fly for the military (although with their hiring problems at the moment they may extend the maximum age for signing up). In general, if you have any desire to fly in the military you can really only do that when you're young. You don't/won't see 35 year olds at UPT. Yes, the occasional ANG old guy shows up, but that's pretty rare. And as you mentioned, getting the best flying training in the world, and getting paid for it, is having your cake and eating it too.


And flying in the military will give you experiences you simply cannot get anywhere else. I have 28 free fall parachute jumps, glider time, fixed wing time, fighter time, a handful of helicopter rides (night low level on NVG's), and even an AC-130 ride at night shooting live rounds down at Eglin AFB. These are experiences I cherish and you can't get anywhere else; money can't buy them either. And you can always fly for the airlines later in life, like I'm starting to do now after some time in the Air Force and then a desk job for the last decade plus.

Adlerdriver

I think you had him until riiiiiiiight about here.

Albief15

Pile on here....

What counts getting hired at SWA or FDX is not total time, but PIC Turbine. So...nothing WRONG with taking that C-130 or C-17 if that is what you want to do, and those missions have a lot cool things that come with the job.

At the same time, slowly build time 15-30 hours a month in your F-16, F-35, A-10 unit, etc if your heart wants that. In 3-4 years you'll have 500-1000 PIC turbine, maybe sooner if you deploy a few times. Get a regional job...upgrade in 1-2 years..and by year UPT grad + about 3-5 you'll have PIC turbine as a fighter pilot and more than likely in a CRJ or ERJ.

I don't know of any mil co-pilots with no PIC getting hired at majors, but it might be happening and I am just unaware. Thus--the first year or two in the Herc or KC-135 aren't moving the stakes that much faster. I'm not here to bash heavy flying--its a great job and if you want to be part of a good unit then go for it. Judging by the number of fighter Guard babies in the industry, however, I can say that if you WANT to fly fighter it won't slow your progression down that much, if at all. Its PIC turbine that counts, and you'll be logging that from day 1 in your A-10, and not long after that in any other fighter.

Work4life

Ouch! Add to the list 10-12 hour days behind a desk doing mindless-made-up OPR fillers, non-flying extended deployments to the sand box, and back stabbing-ham fisted sticks trying to climb the ladder. Oh but, I cherish flying with my hair on fire that you can only experience in the military and of course, the camaraderie!