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Old 08-28-2019, 07:07 AM   #1  
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Default Military FW to Airlines

Hello all,

First post on this forum, so thanks in advance.

I recently landed a UPT spot with a heavy Air National Guard unit. I currently have around 150 hrs of time with a PPL and will continue to build that until I leave for training. I expect to gain another 250-300hrs total by the time I'm finished with UPT, follow on etc.

I'm currently 30 years old and attempting to plan out a timeline/pathway to the majors following military training completion and reaching the 750 mil-ATP. After all the post digging I've done here and other sites, I'm thinking the following timeline:

-2 Years for Mil UPT, aircraft specific and seasoning days at home unit- 750 hrs total for mil
-2 to 3 years at a Regional to build time and airline experience. Perhaps build another 2K hrs in this time frame.
-5 total years later from now and at the age of 35, perhaps land a job at a major.


Is this timeline unrealistic or doable? Any different pathways one would recommend after mil training, such as, attempt to land a full time mil job to build time?

Appreciate the insight!
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Old 08-28-2019, 07:58 AM   #2  
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Possibly realistic for ULCC/LCC.

For the big guys, you'll probably need some PIC either from the guard, regional or both.
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Old 08-28-2019, 06:52 PM   #3  
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Originally Posted by tankaft View Post
Hello all,

First post on this forum, so thanks in advance.

I recently landed a UPT spot with a heavy Air National Guard unit. I currently have around 150 hrs of time with a PPL and will continue to build that until I leave for training. I expect to gain another 250-300hrs total by the time I'm finished with UPT, follow on etc.

I'm currently 30 years old and attempting to plan out a timeline/pathway to the majors following military training completion and reaching the 750 mil-ATP. After all the post digging I've done here and other sites, I'm thinking the following timeline:

-2 Years for Mil UPT, aircraft specific and seasoning days at home unit- 750 hrs total for mil
-2 to 3 years at a Regional to build time and airline experience. Perhaps build another 2K hrs in this time frame.
-5 total years later from now and at the age of 35, perhaps land a job at a major.


Is this timeline unrealistic or doable? Any different pathways one would recommend after mil training, such as, attempt to land a full time mil job to build time?

Appreciate the insight!
2 years won’t cut it. Do you have dates yet? You won’t get 750 from UPT and seasoning. UPT May get you 150-200 hours. Maybe with a deployment you can get to 750. I say 5 years from the time you start UPT.
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Old 08-28-2019, 06:56 PM   #4  
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Focus on doing well at UPT. Then focus on mastering your mission. Fly as much as possible. Volunteer for every tdy and deployment. If you do those things you’ll end up at a major airline with plenty of time to make the money. I wouldn’t even worry about the “take full time orders versus regional” question yet.
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:47 PM   #5  
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Focus on doing well at UPT. Then focus on mastering your mission. Fly as much as possible. Volunteer for every tdy and deployment. If you do those things you’ll end up at a major airline with plenty of time to make the money. I wouldn’t even worry about the “take full time orders versus regional” question yet.
This. Fly your ass off in the guard. Volunteer for everything. Go active guard or even consider 1-2 year Title 10/ADT/ADOS (or whatever it's called these days) orders and get AC qualified as soon as possible. If you can do a lot of C17 flying on active duty for a few years, I'd do that over a regional. In addition to the fact that C17 PIC time as an AC is (pound for pound) more valuable than FO on a CRJ-200, you're also building reserve retirement points that count towards your military pension. Every single IDT drill and every day of Title 10/ADOS counts for your reserve pension, even with that bull**** BRS pension system they've introduced for guys like you who joined after 2018.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:22 AM   #6  
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This. Fly your ass off in the guard. Volunteer for everything. Go active guard or even consider 1-2 year Title 10/ADT/ADOS (or whatever it's called these days) orders and get AC qualified as soon as possible. If you can do a lot of C17 flying on active duty for a few years, I'd do that over a regional. In addition to the fact that C17 PIC time as an AC is (pound for pound) more valuable than FO on a CRJ-200, you're also building reserve retirement points that count towards your military pension. Every single IDT drill and every day of Title 10/ADOS counts for your reserve pension, even with that bull**** BRS pension system they've introduced for guys like you who joined after 2018.
Are you in an airline HR department and can verify that they view the C17 time as more valuable than CRJ-200 time? Granted, being military FW is a huge advantage. But much of the apps comes down to electronic scoring and once you get to an hour level I don't think the app cares if you have more C17 time verses CRJ time.
The more boxes you can fill in is normally better. If someone can fill in another type rating, combined military and 121... it starts adding up.

I would say get the minimums needed, then put in apps. once R-ATP minimums are met. When you cross that bridge, weigh the flying opportunities Guard versus regional. We're talking several years from now. Maybe the Guard will be only flying minimums. Maybe they won't be. If you get hired by a regional, check the 121 block and another type rating there is nothing preventing you from then spending most of your time flying Guard side and dropping regional trips. As long as you have orders the regional has to let you do so.
But that's what... 3-5 years down the road? Post again when you cross that bridge. The landscape, both military and civilian, will probably be different.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:34 AM   #7  
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Are you in an airline HR department and can verify that they view the C17 time as more valuable than CRJ-200 time? Granted, being military FW is a huge advantage. But much of the apps comes down to electronic scoring and once you get to an hour level I don't think the app cares if you have more C17 time verses CRJ time.
He said C17 PIC is more valuable than CRJ FO time, I think that's a safe call.

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The more boxes you can fill in is normally better. If someone can fill in another type rating, combined military and 121... it starts adding up.
Yeah another type is a very significant scoring credit, especially if you check the 121 box. Definitely do regional when eligible, even if you mil-drop a lot to fly guard.

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Originally Posted by Blackhawk View Post
I would say get the minimums needed, then put in apps. once R-ATP minimums are met. When you cross that bridge, weigh the flying opportunities Guard versus regional. We're talking several years from now. Maybe the Guard will be only flying minimums. Maybe they won't be. If you get hired by a regional, check the 121 block and another type rating there is nothing preventing you from then spending most of your time flying Guard side and dropping regional trips. As long as you have orders the regional has to let you do so.
But that's what... 3-5 years down the road? Post again when you cross that bridge. The landscape, both military and civilian, will probably be different.
This too.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:44 AM   #8  
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He said C17 PIC is more valuable than CRJ FO time, I think that's a safe call.
Sorry, I missed the PIC. But that's true of just about any turbofan- PIC is better than FO. But again, he needs to view the landscape when he crosses that bridge. I am obviously not familiar with the heavy side of the Guard, but I've seen units that were fat on PIC's so upgrade took a long time. Many regionals now are upgrading as soon as you meet PIC minimums. PIC CRJ-200 will probably carry more weight than more C17 SIC time. But... I've known people hired at legacies with zero TPIC.
Again, it comes down to playing the odds and getting more blocks checked as quickly as possible.
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Old 08-29-2019, 08:39 AM   #9  
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Again, it comes down to playing the odds and getting more blocks checked as quickly as possible.
Yes. My caveat with the mil is that few have the opportunity to check that box, so do it when and if you can. If push comes to shove the regionals will always be there, at least in any plausible alternative reality.
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:24 AM   #10  
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Are you in an airline HR department and can verify that they view the C17 time as more valuable than CRJ-200 time?
No, I'm not. And I'm not a guard or C17 pilot. But I've flown in two branches of the military, briefly for a regional and for a legacy the last few years, and my comments are based on my own FW mil time, my hiring experiences the last few years and that of my friends. I don't claim to know everything. What I'm trying to say is that if all other things are equal and he takes every single opportunity available, he'll probably be able to log PIC time faster on a mil heavy than at a regional airline. Again, this is how it worked out for me, but we can agree to disagree Blackhawk.
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