Navy carrier Captain fired.
04-11-2020, 05:21 PM
#63
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 71
Many people that reach the O-6 level and above often times will look out for their own career progression over the interests of their people when faced with a tough decision. I’ve seen it many times during my time in the AF.
It’s refreshing to see a leader willing to risk his career at the expense of his people.
Of course the jury is still out, but I’m certain Crozier is no idiot, and I’m willing to bet he utilized the official channels before tossing his life’s work into the ****ter just for some media attention.
It’s refreshing to see a leader willing to risk his career at the expense of his people.
Of course the jury is still out, but I’m certain Crozier is no idiot, and I’m willing to bet he utilized the official channels before tossing his life’s work into the ****ter just for some media attention.
04-11-2020, 08:02 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 328
Originally Posted by Wheelsoff
Many people that reach the O-6 level and above often times will look out for their own career progression over the interests of their people when faced with a tough decision. I’ve seen it many times during my time in the AF.
It’s refreshing to see a leader willing to risk his career at the expense of his people.
Of course the jury is still out, but I’m certain Crozier is no idiot, and I’m willing to bet he utilized the official channels before tossing his life’s work into the ****ter just for some media attention.
It’s refreshing to see a leader willing to risk his career at the expense of his people.
Of course the jury is still out, but I’m certain Crozier is no idiot, and I’m willing to bet he utilized the official channels before tossing his life’s work into the ****ter just for some media attention.
I can see him using his normal chain of command and begging some staff O-5 for much needed help. The staff O-5 just smiles and says "You're smart, you'll figure it out....good luck (points to door)".
So Crozier decided to jump on someone's desk and yell for help. Good for him.
"In wartime, the mission is everything and must be accomplished at all costs...
In peacetime, your people are everything and must be cared for at all costs"
04-12-2020, 02:39 PM
#65
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,289
Originally Posted by ImTumbleweed
Shack!
I can see him using his normal chain of command and begging some staff O-5 for much needed help. The staff O-5 just smiles and says "You're smart, you'll figure it out....good luck (points to door)".
So Crozier decided to jump on someone's desk and yell for help. Good for him.
"In wartime, the mission is everything and must be accomplished at all costs...
In peacetime, your people are everything and must be cared for at all costs"
I can see him using his normal chain of command and begging some staff O-5 for much needed help. The staff O-5 just smiles and says "You're smart, you'll figure it out....good luck (points to door)".
So Crozier decided to jump on someone's desk and yell for help. Good for him.
"In wartime, the mission is everything and must be accomplished at all costs...
In peacetime, your people are everything and must be cared for at all costs"
His direct operational boss (a two star, in this case a fighter pilot and former CVN CO himself) is literally on board his ship... he is physically accessible with a two-minute walk.
Also he has direct reachback to a variety of flag officers. Lots of people are routinely cc'ed on his equities (should have been SIPR or JWICS, not open email).
There is no way he was not heard. The CoC may not have agreed with his position, but that's their prerogative. But as far as I'm hearing, it came out of left field. I'm not sure he even tried the usual channels (maybe he talked to CSG 9, we don't know). I'm sure we'll hear about it all eventually.
From someone who's familiar with how all that works (fleet HQ leadership) the whole thing is bizarre.
Also... that platform deployed to that AOR is not "peacetime".
Last edited by rickair7777; 04-12-2020 at 03:00 PM.
04-13-2020, 06:46 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Couldn't be further from the truth for a CVN CO.
His direct operational boss (a two star, in this case a fighter pilot and former CVN CO himself) is literally on board his ship... he is physically accessible with a two-minute walk.
Also he has direct reachback to a variety of flag officers. Lots of people are routinely cc'ed on his equities (should have been SIPR or JWICS, not open email).
There is no way he was not heard. The CoC may not have agreed with his position, but that's their prerogative. But as far as I'm hearing, it came out of left field. I'm not sure he even tried the usual channels (maybe he talked to CSG 9, we don't know). I'm sure we'll hear about it all eventually.
From someone who's familiar with how all that works (fleet HQ leadership) the whole thing is bizarre.
Also... that platform deployed to that AOR is not "peacetime".
His direct operational boss (a two star, in this case a fighter pilot and former CVN CO himself) is literally on board his ship... he is physically accessible with a two-minute walk.
Also he has direct reachback to a variety of flag officers. Lots of people are routinely cc'ed on his equities (should have been SIPR or JWICS, not open email).
There is no way he was not heard. The CoC may not have agreed with his position, but that's their prerogative. But as far as I'm hearing, it came out of left field. I'm not sure he even tried the usual channels (maybe he talked to CSG 9, we don't know). I'm sure we'll hear about it all eventually.
From someone who's familiar with how all that works (fleet HQ leadership) the whole thing is bizarre.
Also... that platform deployed to that AOR is not "peacetime".
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/an...ry/ar-BB12wPEY
04-13-2020, 06:48 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,230
One sailor has died, R.I.P. Interestingly he was in isolation off the ship but not moved to I.C.U until found unresponsive and pronounced dead several days later.
https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=112614
https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=112614
04-13-2020, 07:18 AM
#69
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
But the REAL QUESTION IS....
While we can agree to disagree about what Captain Crozier did and how he did it...
WHAT IDIOT DECIDED that the ship needed a port call in Vietnam (where they apparently picked this up) when it was known Vietnam had coronavirus? While I have never personally deployed for a long trip aboard a carrier, I was at NSA Naples once when a carrier group came in to dock. Suffice it to say that the amount of close familiarity between the crew and the locals was... impressive.
Who decided that putting in to port in an area with an ongoing epidemic was worth the risk? And is anybody going to discuss that decision with THEM?
WHAT IDIOT DECIDED that the ship needed a port call in Vietnam (where they apparently picked this up) when it was known Vietnam had coronavirus? While I have never personally deployed for a long trip aboard a carrier, I was at NSA Naples once when a carrier group came in to dock. Suffice it to say that the amount of close familiarity between the crew and the locals was... impressive.
Who decided that putting in to port in an area with an ongoing epidemic was worth the risk? And is anybody going to discuss that decision with THEM?
04-13-2020, 07:42 AM
#70
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,289
Originally Posted by Excargodog
WHAT IDIOT DECIDED that the ship needed a port call in Vietnam (where they apparently picked this up) when it was known Vietnam had coronavirus? While I have never personally deployed for a long trip aboard a carrier, I was at NSA Naples once when a carrier group came in to dock. Suffice it to say that the amount of close familiarity between the crew and the locals was... impressive.
Who decided that putting in to port in an area with an ongoing epidemic was worth the risk? And is anybody going to discuss that decision with THEM?
Who decided that putting in to port in an area with an ongoing epidemic was worth the risk? And is anybody going to discuss that decision with THEM?
A CSG deployment in and of itself involves risks, and there are usually fatalities and injuries on each deployment. We don't cancel those deployments because somebody might get hurt.
As I suspected, CAPT Crozier worked through the CoC initially (starting with his on-scene boss, a two-star). He didn't like the fact that the chain didn't give him exactly what he wanted, so he took matters into his own hands. Predictable consequences. The COVID was being dealt with, and resources allocated, he just didn't agree with the details. The CoC of course had bigger-picture issues to consider, such as the situation on Guam itself and their local government, as well the operational readiness of the ship itself (can't sail as a combat asset with 85% of the crew ashore).
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