2007 Pilot Retention Rates
11-19-2007, 02:13 PM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Left Seat, Toyota Tacoma
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by Rocco
You do need an available date. April - September is a pretty big gap..??? Somebody yanking your chain?
In the meantime, you alone can pick your separation date, as long as it is after your ADSC. As long as your separation date is at least 6 months from the day you try to establish it, you don't need any approval to do so. If you don't give the AF at least 6 months notice, then you need a Wing/CC waiver.
Also, if you plan on going to the Guard/Reserve, then you need to fill out an AF Form 780. That form needs to be signed by your Wing/CC, but they have no legal grounds of denying a separation as long as you give them 6 months notice and you have fulfilled your ADSC.
Riddler
11-19-2007, 02:14 PM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Left Seat, Toyota Tacoma
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by sigtauenus
Riddler, did you have your separation date in writing before you got the interview with CAL?
My date is up in the air by about 4-6 months right now, its a moving window between April and September of 08, although I should have a solid date in another month or so.
Its my understanding that you need a solid availability date before you can get an interview, since they likely don't want to waste time interviewing a guy who then chooses to stay in, or interview a guy who isn't available for another year or more.
My date is up in the air by about 4-6 months right now, its a moving window between April and September of 08, although I should have a solid date in another month or so.
Its my understanding that you need a solid availability date before you can get an interview, since they likely don't want to waste time interviewing a guy who then chooses to stay in, or interview a guy who isn't available for another year or more.
11-19-2007, 08:22 PM
#126
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: SWA Newbie
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by AFPirate
Skeletons notwithstanding, anyone here get promoted to O-4 WITHOUT a master's degree?
O-5 board...just like Hacker said.
11-19-2007, 11:23 PM
#127
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: Furloughed Desk Jocky
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by Albief15
Moosepilot had some interesting data points...I'll share mine...
I left active duty at 14 years. I took the first bonus at year 7 because the airline I wanted (Delta) wasn't hiring big in 96 and I was marginal on total time for Fedex or Delta. I also was offered the job I wanted a long time--an F-15 to Europe. So...I've been a company man and "stayed blue".
I left in 2002 at 14 years...passing up an active duty retirement to fly part time in the ANG. So I've been a "quitter" too...
I also elected not to pursue an AGR full time spot AFTER I had started at FedEx and had enough points to coast less than 5 years to get an active duty retirement. I realize for many, the 20 year retirement check is the "Holy Grail" of financial security...but I passed on it. Here's why:
The biggest gripe I ever had with active duty was never the money, it was the constant hectic pace and inabilty to control any of my life away from work. The wonder thing about the ANG and airline life was I got a "vote" in what I did next. I got to build equity in a home, start a business, become a church committee member, etc etc. I'm not saying you can't do those things active duty, and I've seen some uber-officers pull it off..but for me my life is so much happier and richer NOT having to move every 3 years and being able to have a few more days off here and there. And, as someone else pointed out--I like being able to work MORE or LESS based on our time/money tradeoffs at the time. Working in the AF was based on real world contingencies, ORIs, and needs of the service--they determined when and how much time you'd get off. I passed on the AGR option because after having the ability to have lunch with my wife on a Tuesday or go out of town on a whim to visit family or friends, I became addicted to that freedom. After a couple years of relative freedom and control surrendering that back to the organization just seemed too big a bite to swallow. My wife was happy, my kids were happy, my business was taking off, and I just didn't want to drive to the base EVERY day for 5 more years. I figured that while on paper the AGR retirement was a better deal financially, the price for it was higher than I wanted to pay. So--I allowed myself the abilty to not "maximize" every decision and follow my heart for a while. And...you know what....we were blessed. Our business(s) have done very well since then , we have moved into new areas (a horse farm), and so far life is good. Your mileage will vary...and we all have to go our own path. But for me...its been a wonderful life on the outside. Its been a gut check, but put us down in the W column. Watching guys get out now (about the time I could have retired) and seeing SWA not hiring and 1200 names behind me at FedEx lets me know the first decision to bail was smart. Passing on the AGR has allowed me to do some things I wouldn't have been able to do as well...it just put that check of the month on hold 17 more years. I think we'll squeek by between now and then...
Now--I'm proud of my service--and I woundn't be who I am today without the training and skills I learned as an officer and pilot. And I probably wouldn't have the professional credibility, either. However, what was perfect for me at 25 and 30 wasn't the best fit at 35 and 40....life changes, we change, and our goals change along the way.
What I can say is my experience financially has been outstanding since I left the service. I lost my pilot bonus in the 2000-2001 stock market downturn. However, since then I've gotten a great airline job (FedEx), started a business, and my wife's career (since we aren't moving!) has blossomed and she does some great work too. A real estate deal or two have gone well, and so far, so good. So--if you look beyond your airline paycheck and see what your dreams are, you can do okay on the outside. Airtran or Jetblue won't make you rich...sorry. However...if you have other skills or interests outside of flying those jobs will afford you the time to try your hand in other areas.
Whatever you do---I like the ANG/Reserve until 20 option. You still get to be on the team fighting the bad guys, even when the organization is still sometimes a pain in the @ss. You've got a small safety net with money and insurance down the road if necessary.
Good luck. This is a great thread and I wish everyone the best--whether they stay or they go...
I left active duty at 14 years. I took the first bonus at year 7 because the airline I wanted (Delta) wasn't hiring big in 96 and I was marginal on total time for Fedex or Delta. I also was offered the job I wanted a long time--an F-15 to Europe. So...I've been a company man and "stayed blue".
I left in 2002 at 14 years...passing up an active duty retirement to fly part time in the ANG. So I've been a "quitter" too...
I also elected not to pursue an AGR full time spot AFTER I had started at FedEx and had enough points to coast less than 5 years to get an active duty retirement. I realize for many, the 20 year retirement check is the "Holy Grail" of financial security...but I passed on it. Here's why:
The biggest gripe I ever had with active duty was never the money, it was the constant hectic pace and inabilty to control any of my life away from work. The wonder thing about the ANG and airline life was I got a "vote" in what I did next. I got to build equity in a home, start a business, become a church committee member, etc etc. I'm not saying you can't do those things active duty, and I've seen some uber-officers pull it off..but for me my life is so much happier and richer NOT having to move every 3 years and being able to have a few more days off here and there. And, as someone else pointed out--I like being able to work MORE or LESS based on our time/money tradeoffs at the time. Working in the AF was based on real world contingencies, ORIs, and needs of the service--they determined when and how much time you'd get off. I passed on the AGR option because after having the ability to have lunch with my wife on a Tuesday or go out of town on a whim to visit family or friends, I became addicted to that freedom. After a couple years of relative freedom and control surrendering that back to the organization just seemed too big a bite to swallow. My wife was happy, my kids were happy, my business was taking off, and I just didn't want to drive to the base EVERY day for 5 more years. I figured that while on paper the AGR retirement was a better deal financially, the price for it was higher than I wanted to pay. So--I allowed myself the abilty to not "maximize" every decision and follow my heart for a while. And...you know what....we were blessed. Our business(s) have done very well since then , we have moved into new areas (a horse farm), and so far life is good. Your mileage will vary...and we all have to go our own path. But for me...its been a wonderful life on the outside. Its been a gut check, but put us down in the W column. Watching guys get out now (about the time I could have retired) and seeing SWA not hiring and 1200 names behind me at FedEx lets me know the first decision to bail was smart. Passing on the AGR has allowed me to do some things I wouldn't have been able to do as well...it just put that check of the month on hold 17 more years. I think we'll squeek by between now and then...
Now--I'm proud of my service--and I woundn't be who I am today without the training and skills I learned as an officer and pilot. And I probably wouldn't have the professional credibility, either. However, what was perfect for me at 25 and 30 wasn't the best fit at 35 and 40....life changes, we change, and our goals change along the way.
What I can say is my experience financially has been outstanding since I left the service. I lost my pilot bonus in the 2000-2001 stock market downturn. However, since then I've gotten a great airline job (FedEx), started a business, and my wife's career (since we aren't moving!) has blossomed and she does some great work too. A real estate deal or two have gone well, and so far, so good. So--if you look beyond your airline paycheck and see what your dreams are, you can do okay on the outside. Airtran or Jetblue won't make you rich...sorry. However...if you have other skills or interests outside of flying those jobs will afford you the time to try your hand in other areas.
Whatever you do---I like the ANG/Reserve until 20 option. You still get to be on the team fighting the bad guys, even when the organization is still sometimes a pain in the @ss. You've got a small safety net with money and insurance down the road if necessary.
Good luck. This is a great thread and I wish everyone the best--whether they stay or they go...
11-20-2007, 05:05 PM
#128
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Posts: 73
Originally Posted by Cosmo
Albief15: Awesome words. I just made the final decsioin to separate a couple of weeks ago...11 years of service, IDE next, prior Intern...but I slowly realized that the Air Force was stringing me along one carrot at a time. The words from AFPC at A/TA this year sealed the deal..."365 deployments guaranteed to finish a career". I've had a few allude to "quiting" at first it upset me a little...but now I realize it is a reaction to those that can't handle the, as you suggested, "gut check". I'm making the leap with no employment lined up...none...no Guard/Reserve guarantee...and certainly no interviews on the horizon. Not sure what we'll do....but somehow it's the first time in a while I actually feel like I'm living. Control is an odd term in my case...it goes both ways. Similar to CFIT or like flying a Heavyweight C-17 on two engines...a controlled descent, hopefully there won't be an impact.
Anyone else heard of this...
Made the jump a few years ago also....if this is the case, I feel a whole lot better about my decision.
11-21-2007, 12:45 AM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Petting Zoo
Posts: 2,074
Originally Posted by Cosmo
The guy from AFPC said something along the lines of...."you'll see a remote tour or maybe two in a 20 year career nowadays with the ever increasing 365 deployments"
My .02 but my take is that is more of a "you shouldn't expect a 20 year career without one" vs you will do one. There are far two many variables between MDS not to mention AFSC to make a blanket across the board statement like that and have it mean anything. Fighter bubbas already live that world because of Korea, I just don't see it happening for tanker/transport. Yes if you go to school (big if) there is enormous pressure to go do a CENTCOM tour (one year or 365) right out, to give them the benefit of the "best and brightest," but the majority of us lowly schlubs aren't good enough for school and miss the pressure of that kind of career reward completely.
I'm in that career window now, granted I already have a short tour but I saw no kind of push/threat during my PCS last summer from AFPC, my CC or MAJCOM. My friends in school....yeah they're getting a lot of it, but that's them. School has always opened up a lot of doors for people, including many no one wanted opened. Even if every AF 05 position over there goes to one year, including the PRTs, there aren't enough slots to say "everyone will go." Plus a lot of those slots are CC type billets, and dang it but most of us just aren't good enough.
Then again, ask me in five years, we'll see if I was right.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
