UPT to UAVs...what a deal!
10-07-2008, 01:30 PM
#71
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 777 FO
Posts: 931
Originally Posted by Winston Smith
People, rich or not, are a LONG way from flying on an airplane without the pilots' asses on the line along with theirs, so pax pilots will be around for a long, long time. No one's going to fly an airplane with the "pilots" safely on the ground.
The same cannot be said for cargo. People really don't care if their overnight letter or rubber dog sh!t is being flown by an honest-to-God trained pilot or by a 19 year old video game champion.
The same cannot be said for cargo. People really don't care if their overnight letter or rubber dog sh!t is being flown by an honest-to-God trained pilot or by a 19 year old video game champion.
10-07-2008, 03:46 PM
#72
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 829
[quote=KC10 FATboy;475034]...wouldn't you consider government contractors as employees of the US Government? [qoute]
No, can you decipher a difference between a DEA Agent, an FBI agent, A CIA agent, a military officer, and a Blackwater contractor? The money that goes into their bank account all originates from the US Gov't, but the route it takes before it gets there is pretty different. The name of the employer on the paycheck stub of one of these people is different than the rest. As far as the Geneva Conventions, someone who is flying cargo for the gov't in as a FedEx employee is treated differently than when that same person is flying cargo in on a C-17 as a USAF Reserve officer. It may be quibbling to you, but reality is the difference is large.
As an analogy, I would think that ALPA would have something to say if a domestic FedEx MD-11 was flown by a Mountain Air Cargo pilot vs a FedEx seniority list pilot. Even though the person on the street would see little difference, as the funds in both of their paychecks originate at FedEx Express Corp, the difference to those in the know is large.
No, can you decipher a difference between a DEA Agent, an FBI agent, A CIA agent, a military officer, and a Blackwater contractor? The money that goes into their bank account all originates from the US Gov't, but the route it takes before it gets there is pretty different. The name of the employer on the paycheck stub of one of these people is different than the rest. As far as the Geneva Conventions, someone who is flying cargo for the gov't in as a FedEx employee is treated differently than when that same person is flying cargo in on a C-17 as a USAF Reserve officer. It may be quibbling to you, but reality is the difference is large.
As an analogy, I would think that ALPA would have something to say if a domestic FedEx MD-11 was flown by a Mountain Air Cargo pilot vs a FedEx seniority list pilot. Even though the person on the street would see little difference, as the funds in both of their paychecks originate at FedEx Express Corp, the difference to those in the know is large.
10-07-2008, 07:09 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,096
The maintenance guy in uniform working on a fighter is considered a combatant. The civilian contractor deployed at a forward base in theatre working on a UAV w/missiles, does the same job ... although I'm pretty sure the Geneva Conventions would say that there is difference.
The reality is, as I have already said, we have contractors and other parts of our government working side by side our military combatants ... and the reality is we are all starting to blur into one another. Whether that is ethical with respect to the Laws of Armed Combat, it is reality.
-Fatty
The reality is, as I have already said, we have contractors and other parts of our government working side by side our military combatants ... and the reality is we are all starting to blur into one another. Whether that is ethical with respect to the Laws of Armed Combat, it is reality.
-Fatty
10-07-2008, 08:05 PM
#74
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: L-382, Left/Right
Posts: 36
This just in...Non-Pilots going to UAV's
10/7/2008 - RANDOLPH AIR FORCE BASE, Texas (AFNS) -- Air Force officers are being sought as volunteers to operate unmanned aircraft systems. Applications are due to the Air Force Personnel Center no later than Nov. 3.
The first ten officers selected will start UAS operator training in January 2009, and another ten will begin training in April 2009.
The UAS is a big part of the future of the Air Force, Air Force officials said. First-hand knowledge of its capabilities and operations will be critical to future combat effectiveness as well as future Air Force leadership. Pilots flying operational missions or working in the Predator Operations Center get a unique perspective on world events, typically while such events are in progress.
In order to volunteer, officers must complete the test of basic aviation skills, or TBAS, by Oct. 31. Testing locations for the TBAS can be found on the Pilot Candidate Selection Method Web site. A Common Access Card is required to access this site.
In addition to the TBAS, officers must meet the following requirements:
-- Captain with 4-6 years total active federal commissioned service as of Jan. 5, 2009
-- Be less than 30 years old Jan. 5, 2009
-- Air Force Officer Qualification Test minimum scores greater than 25 for pilot, and greater than 50 for combined pilot and navigator composites. Note: if no AFOQT is on file, complete the AFOQT by Oct. 31, 2008
-- Two years time on station by July 1, 2009
-- No previous military pilot training experience
With respect to eligibility to volunteer:
-- Non-rated line officers are eligible
-- Combat system officers, panel navigators, electronic warfare officers, weapons system officers and air battle managers are eligible if they are not currently in training, awaiting training, or previously eliminated from upgrade pilot training.
-- Pilots are not eligible for this program
Volunteers meeting the criteria above and wanting to apply must complete the Aircrew Training Candidate Data Summery, Air Force Form 215, and electronically forward the completed form to Pipeline and Training Assignment Branch at [email protected] by 4 p.m. CST, Nov. 3, 2008. Group or squadron commanders -- do not use a higher level -- must provide their recommendations on the form. No other documentation will be accepted as part of the application process.
Interested officers who have questions about the application process, or the qualifications, can contact AFPC's Pipeline and Training Assignment Branch at (210) 565-2330, DSN 665-2330.
More information about this program can be found on the AFPC "Ask" Web site by entering "UAS" in the search engine. Individuals also can contact the 24-hour Air Force Contact Center at (800) 616-3775.
The first ten officers selected will start UAS operator training in January 2009, and another ten will begin training in April 2009.
The UAS is a big part of the future of the Air Force, Air Force officials said. First-hand knowledge of its capabilities and operations will be critical to future combat effectiveness as well as future Air Force leadership. Pilots flying operational missions or working in the Predator Operations Center get a unique perspective on world events, typically while such events are in progress.
In order to volunteer, officers must complete the test of basic aviation skills, or TBAS, by Oct. 31. Testing locations for the TBAS can be found on the Pilot Candidate Selection Method Web site. A Common Access Card is required to access this site.
In addition to the TBAS, officers must meet the following requirements:
-- Captain with 4-6 years total active federal commissioned service as of Jan. 5, 2009
-- Be less than 30 years old Jan. 5, 2009
-- Air Force Officer Qualification Test minimum scores greater than 25 for pilot, and greater than 50 for combined pilot and navigator composites. Note: if no AFOQT is on file, complete the AFOQT by Oct. 31, 2008
-- Two years time on station by July 1, 2009
-- No previous military pilot training experience
With respect to eligibility to volunteer:
-- Non-rated line officers are eligible
-- Combat system officers, panel navigators, electronic warfare officers, weapons system officers and air battle managers are eligible if they are not currently in training, awaiting training, or previously eliminated from upgrade pilot training.
-- Pilots are not eligible for this program
Volunteers meeting the criteria above and wanting to apply must complete the Aircrew Training Candidate Data Summery, Air Force Form 215, and electronically forward the completed form to Pipeline and Training Assignment Branch at [email protected] by 4 p.m. CST, Nov. 3, 2008. Group or squadron commanders -- do not use a higher level -- must provide their recommendations on the form. No other documentation will be accepted as part of the application process.
Interested officers who have questions about the application process, or the qualifications, can contact AFPC's Pipeline and Training Assignment Branch at (210) 565-2330, DSN 665-2330.
More information about this program can be found on the AFPC "Ask" Web site by entering "UAS" in the search engine. Individuals also can contact the 24-hour Air Force Contact Center at (800) 616-3775.
10-07-2008, 08:28 PM
#75
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 737 right
Posts: 755
You do realize this is in addition to taking 100 pilots from UPT every year for the next 3 years until they decide if this trial program works or not. Not sure if you realized that or not, because you bolded the part about no prior experience and pilots being ineligble to apply.
10-07-2008, 10:44 PM
#76
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: L-382, Left/Right
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by FLY6584
You do realize this is in addition to taking 100 pilots from UPT every year for the next 3 years until they decide if this trial program works or not. Not sure if you realized that or not, because you bolded the part about no prior experience and pilots being ineligble to apply.
Oh, I'm well aware...I posted the article for info only. I bolded the "non-pilot" part because that is a central theme in many UAV conversations.
Looks like the Air Force is working a near term (UPT) and long term (non-pilot) solution to the problem.
HH
10-08-2008, 04:28 AM
#77
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: C-17A IP
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by HueyHerc
10/7/2008 - RANDOLPH AIR FORCE BASE, Texas (AFNS) -- Air Force officers are being sought as volunteers to operate unmanned aircraft systems. Applications are due to the Air Force Personnel Center no later than Nov. 3.
The first ten officers selected will start UAS operator training in January 2009, and another ten will begin training in April 2009.
The UAS is a big part of the future of the Air Force, Air Force officials said. First-hand knowledge of its capabilities and operations will be critical to future combat effectiveness as well as future Air Force leadership. Pilots flying operational missions or working in the Predator Operations Center get a unique perspective on world events, typically while such events are in progress.
In order to volunteer, officers must complete the test of basic aviation skills, or TBAS, by Oct. 31. Testing locations for the TBAS can be found on the Pilot Candidate Selection Method Web site. A Common Access Card is required to access this site.
In addition to the TBAS, officers must meet the following requirements:
-- Captain with 4-6 years total active federal commissioned service as of Jan. 5, 2009
-- Be less than 30 years old Jan. 5, 2009
-- Air Force Officer Qualification Test minimum scores greater than 25 for pilot, and greater than 50 for combined pilot and navigator composites. Note: if no AFOQT is on file, complete the AFOQT by Oct. 31, 2008
-- Two years time on station by July 1, 2009
-- No previous military pilot training experience
With respect to eligibility to volunteer:
-- Non-rated line officers are eligible
-- Combat system officers, panel navigators, electronic warfare officers, weapons system officers and air battle managers are eligible if they are not currently in training, awaiting training, or previously eliminated from upgrade pilot training.
-- Pilots are not eligible for this program
Volunteers meeting the criteria above and wanting to apply must complete the Aircrew Training Candidate Data Summery, Air Force Form 215, and electronically forward the completed form to Pipeline and Training Assignment Branch at [email protected] by 4 p.m. CST, Nov. 3, 2008. Group or squadron commanders -- do not use a higher level -- must provide their recommendations on the form. No other documentation will be accepted as part of the application process.
Interested officers who have questions about the application process, or the qualifications, can contact AFPC's Pipeline and Training Assignment Branch at (210) 565-2330, DSN 665-2330.
More information about this program can be found on the AFPC "Ask" Web site by entering "UAS" in the search engine. Individuals also can contact the 24-hour Air Force Contact Center at (800) 616-3775.
The first ten officers selected will start UAS operator training in January 2009, and another ten will begin training in April 2009.
The UAS is a big part of the future of the Air Force, Air Force officials said. First-hand knowledge of its capabilities and operations will be critical to future combat effectiveness as well as future Air Force leadership. Pilots flying operational missions or working in the Predator Operations Center get a unique perspective on world events, typically while such events are in progress.
In order to volunteer, officers must complete the test of basic aviation skills, or TBAS, by Oct. 31. Testing locations for the TBAS can be found on the Pilot Candidate Selection Method Web site. A Common Access Card is required to access this site.
In addition to the TBAS, officers must meet the following requirements:
-- Captain with 4-6 years total active federal commissioned service as of Jan. 5, 2009
-- Be less than 30 years old Jan. 5, 2009
-- Air Force Officer Qualification Test minimum scores greater than 25 for pilot, and greater than 50 for combined pilot and navigator composites. Note: if no AFOQT is on file, complete the AFOQT by Oct. 31, 2008
-- Two years time on station by July 1, 2009
-- No previous military pilot training experience
With respect to eligibility to volunteer:
-- Non-rated line officers are eligible
-- Combat system officers, panel navigators, electronic warfare officers, weapons system officers and air battle managers are eligible if they are not currently in training, awaiting training, or previously eliminated from upgrade pilot training.
-- Pilots are not eligible for this program
Volunteers meeting the criteria above and wanting to apply must complete the Aircrew Training Candidate Data Summery, Air Force Form 215, and electronically forward the completed form to Pipeline and Training Assignment Branch at [email protected] by 4 p.m. CST, Nov. 3, 2008. Group or squadron commanders -- do not use a higher level -- must provide their recommendations on the form. No other documentation will be accepted as part of the application process.
Interested officers who have questions about the application process, or the qualifications, can contact AFPC's Pipeline and Training Assignment Branch at (210) 565-2330, DSN 665-2330.
More information about this program can be found on the AFPC "Ask" Web site by entering "UAS" in the search engine. Individuals also can contact the 24-hour Air Force Contact Center at (800) 616-3775.
I'm sure they'll all get flight suits and leather jackets just like the space cadets. Yet another way to water down the heritage and make "everyone equal."
Pretty sure the trailer they sit in won't catch on fire if their remote control plane gets hit.
10-08-2008, 06:41 AM
#78
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by BrutusBuckeye
I'm sure they'll all get flight suits and leather jackets just like the space cadets. Yet another way to water down the heritage and make "everyone equal."
Pretty sure the trailer they sit in won't catch on fire if their remote control plane gets hit.
Pretty sure the trailer they sit in won't catch on fire if their remote control plane gets hit.
10-08-2008, 01:33 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: C-17 bunk/in the kiddie pool
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by BrutusBuckeye
I'm sure they'll all get flight suits and leather jackets just like the space cadets. Yet another way to water down the heritage and make "everyone equal."
Pretty sure the trailer they sit in won't catch on fire if their remote control plane gets hit.
Pretty sure the trailer they sit in won't catch on fire if their remote control plane gets hit.
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