USAF voluntary officer recall (including retirees)
06-04-2010, 10:16 AM
#941
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Tmo, Mpc
Aloha:
I don't think you can PM yet with 16 posts, so I'll air the laundry here.
Call the guys at the Recall shop and ask them how many travel days you are given. They knew (as did I) that I would only get one day to go from NW Florida to CBM.
As a guess: they will give you one or two days for flying commercial, since driving isn't an option. (If you have your own boat, they might reimburse you up to the cost of an airline ticket if you choose to boat to the West Coast, then drive the rest of the way).
TMO handles all the move stuff. Call your gaining Wing (Creech?) and get the TMO number, or get MPC to help with it. Normally, 'overseas' stuff allows a small shipment at first (used to be called 'hold baggage,' as in 'cargo-hold;" not sure if they still call it that). It was limited to something like 2000 lbs. The main shipment can be made later...not sure if there is a time-limit. Weight-limit depends on rank. I never came close to hitting mine, even as a Captain. Same with family--don't think there is a time-limit, but talk to TMO for travel details for them.
Call your gaining unit and ask if you can come on-orders a week or two BEFORE your RTU date for the purpose of house-hunting. MPC told me that permissive-leave is at the discretion of the gaining unit.
Good luck with all. I'll try sending you a PM with an email so you can reply.
I don't think you can PM yet with 16 posts, so I'll air the laundry here.
Call the guys at the Recall shop and ask them how many travel days you are given. They knew (as did I) that I would only get one day to go from NW Florida to CBM.
As a guess: they will give you one or two days for flying commercial, since driving isn't an option. (If you have your own boat, they might reimburse you up to the cost of an airline ticket if you choose to boat to the West Coast, then drive the rest of the way).
TMO handles all the move stuff. Call your gaining Wing (Creech?) and get the TMO number, or get MPC to help with it. Normally, 'overseas' stuff allows a small shipment at first (used to be called 'hold baggage,' as in 'cargo-hold;" not sure if they still call it that). It was limited to something like 2000 lbs. The main shipment can be made later...not sure if there is a time-limit. Weight-limit depends on rank. I never came close to hitting mine, even as a Captain. Same with family--don't think there is a time-limit, but talk to TMO for travel details for them.
Call your gaining unit and ask if you can come on-orders a week or two BEFORE your RTU date for the purpose of house-hunting. MPC told me that permissive-leave is at the discretion of the gaining unit.
Good luck with all. I'll try sending you a PM with an email so you can reply.
06-06-2010, 07:27 PM
#942
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 2
5-year USERRA limit for retirees
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
I finally got my orders yesterday. Whether by design or sheer blind luck, the last line of my orders states I am exempt from the 5-year USERRA limit under exemption 4312(c)(4)(D). 
That specific exemption is a catch-all, and can apply to just about any recallee (or drilling Reservist/Guardsman, for that matter), if you can get them to add it to your orders.
Thanks to Kikuchyo for hosting the link above. Remember, that document is for Reservists and Guardsmen on orders, not retirees.
That specific exemption is a catch-all, and can apply to just about any recallee (or drilling Reservist/Guardsman, for that matter), if you can get them to add it to your orders.
Thanks to Kikuchyo for hosting the link above. Remember, that document is for Reservists and Guardsmen on orders, not retirees.
06-07-2010, 04:56 AM
#943
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
4312(c)(4)(D) is Gold!
I've never found a policy memo for those under 688a, which is voluntary active-duty out of retirement.
That is why 4312(c)(4)(D) is so valuable--it covers everything and anyone, as I read it.
See if you can get Recall Ops to add it. Otherwise, use normal USERRA 5-year rules.
I was in a situation where I was going to exceed 5 years (due to previous Reserve mil-leaves), hence my happiness in finding a way to extend it.
That is why 4312(c)(4)(D) is so valuable--it covers everything and anyone, as I read it.
See if you can get Recall Ops to add it. Otherwise, use normal USERRA 5-year rules.
I was in a situation where I was going to exceed 5 years (due to previous Reserve mil-leaves), hence my happiness in finding a way to extend it.
06-12-2010, 01:11 AM
#944
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 73
Posts: 225
Lack of 38 U.S.C. 4312(c)(4)(B) ?
First, I want to thank you all for working the reemployment issue. The latest 2005 Memo helps greatly, thanks for posting it on "docstoc."
I took the a permanent recall to active duty and my orders from AFPC do state that I was ordered to active duty under 12301(d). So I have that covered. The memo goes on to state that you should have the 5 year limit exemption 4312(c)(4)(B) placed on your orders. That was left off, so here's my question.
Should I try to get my original orders from last year amended or should I just wait and try to get it included in my separation document as the memo suggests?
I'd like to have all my ducks in a row now, not waiting 4 1/2 more years for my separation document. Are amendments to orders that are now more than a year old possible or even worth attempting?
Thanks and good luck to everyone here,
Humboldt
PS. The U-2 program is still hiring reservist, guard and inter-service transfers if interested.
I took the a permanent recall to active duty and my orders from AFPC do state that I was ordered to active duty under 12301(d). So I have that covered. The memo goes on to state that you should have the 5 year limit exemption 4312(c)(4)(B) placed on your orders. That was left off, so here's my question.
Should I try to get my original orders from last year amended or should I just wait and try to get it included in my separation document as the memo suggests?
I'd like to have all my ducks in a row now, not waiting 4 1/2 more years for my separation document. Are amendments to orders that are now more than a year old possible or even worth attempting?
Thanks and good luck to everyone here,
Humboldt
PS. The U-2 program is still hiring reservist, guard and inter-service transfers if interested.
06-12-2010, 03:31 PM
#945
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
I'd Try
Humboldt:
IAW the Memo:
1. See if MPC will amend your order. Cite the memo as the reason.
2. If they won't, get them (or someone at your base) to draft the supporting letter mentioned in the Memo, and have it placed in your personnel records. I'd try to get it recorded locally as well as MPC. If you are still technically a Reservist, I'd get it recorded at ARPC as well. Again: if they resist, cite the Memo.
3. Call the POC at the bottom of the Memo for more info. Probably not the same guy, but I'd guess it's the same phone number.
4. As a last resort, the Memo by itself should support in most cases (since it says you are 12301(d). But more support is better).
IAW the Memo:
1. See if MPC will amend your order. Cite the memo as the reason.
2. If they won't, get them (or someone at your base) to draft the supporting letter mentioned in the Memo, and have it placed in your personnel records. I'd try to get it recorded locally as well as MPC. If you are still technically a Reservist, I'd get it recorded at ARPC as well. Again: if they resist, cite the Memo.
3. Call the POC at the bottom of the Memo for more info. Probably not the same guy, but I'd guess it's the same phone number.
4. As a last resort, the Memo by itself should support in most cases (since it says you are 12301(d). But more support is better).
06-13-2010, 03:47 PM
#946
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Left Seat, Toyota Tacoma
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by Humboldt
First, I want to thank you all for working the reemployment issue. The latest 2005 Memo helps greatly, thanks for posting it on "docstoc."
I took the a permanent recall to active duty and my orders from AFPC do state that I was ordered to active duty under 12301(d). So I have that covered. The memo goes on to state that you should have the 5 year limit exemption 4312(c)(4)(B) placed on your orders. That was left off, so here's my question.
Should I try to get my original orders from last year amended or should I just wait and try to get it included in my separation document as the memo suggests?
I'd like to have all my ducks in a row now, not waiting 4 1/2 more years for my separation document. Are amendments to orders that are now more than a year old possible or even worth attempting?
Thanks and good luck to everyone here,
Humboldt
PS. The U-2 program is still hiring reservist, guard and inter-service transfers if interested.
I took the a permanent recall to active duty and my orders from AFPC do state that I was ordered to active duty under 12301(d). So I have that covered. The memo goes on to state that you should have the 5 year limit exemption 4312(c)(4)(B) placed on your orders. That was left off, so here's my question.
Should I try to get my original orders from last year amended or should I just wait and try to get it included in my separation document as the memo suggests?
I'd like to have all my ducks in a row now, not waiting 4 1/2 more years for my separation document. Are amendments to orders that are now more than a year old possible or even worth attempting?
Thanks and good luck to everyone here,
Humboldt
PS. The U-2 program is still hiring reservist, guard and inter-service transfers if interested.
I'm in the same boat as you - perm recall. I sent AFPC the memo and they refused to put the USERRA blurb on my orders. I talked to several people, but no one was actually all that knowledgeable about USERRA. I only got as high as a TSgt who insisted that USERRA only applies to reservists, and since we're "permanent" active duty that we don't have any reemployment rights. I went up the chain and found a Major who wrote some of the orders computer software and he really knew nothing about USERRA - he was told to put it on the limited/retired recall but not permanent.
Let me know what you find out.
Riddler
06-13-2010, 04:56 PM
#947
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Left Seat, Toyota Tacoma
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
Humboldt:
IAW the Memo:
1. See if MPC will amend your order. Cite the memo as the reason.
2. If they won't, get them (or someone at your base) to draft the supporting letter mentioned in the Memo, and have it placed in your personnel records. I'd try to get it recorded locally as well as MPC. If you are still technically a Reservist, I'd get it recorded at ARPC as well. Again: if they resist, cite the Memo.
3. Call the POC at the bottom of the Memo for more info. Probably not the same guy, but I'd guess it's the same phone number.
4. As a last resort, the Memo by itself should support in most cases (since it says you are 12301(d). But more support is better).
IAW the Memo:
1. See if MPC will amend your order. Cite the memo as the reason.
2. If they won't, get them (or someone at your base) to draft the supporting letter mentioned in the Memo, and have it placed in your personnel records. I'd try to get it recorded locally as well as MPC. If you are still technically a Reservist, I'd get it recorded at ARPC as well. Again: if they resist, cite the Memo.
3. Call the POC at the bottom of the Memo for more info. Probably not the same guy, but I'd guess it's the same phone number.
4. As a last resort, the Memo by itself should support in most cases (since it says you are 12301(d). But more support is better).
06-15-2010, 07:10 AM
#948
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 73
Posts: 225
Originally Posted by Riddler
According to the folks I've talked to at AFPC, 12301(d) isn't the only thing... it has to be 12301(d) and in support of current wartime operations. That second part is vaguely defined at best. However, the spirit of all of the recall programs was to alleviate active duty wartime shortages.
I'll try to work something when I get back, will let you know if I find anything.
06-26-2010, 08:32 AM
#949
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 256
I've been asked by a few folks for a breakdown of where recallees went. This is NOT a final list - it's only current as of early Apr. It only includes those who are listed by AFPC as being "on orders" as of early Apr. It only covers the three rated recall programs: Retired, Limited Period and Permanent. It does not include the ROTC recall, the non-rated recall, or any inter-service transferees. It only had 420 folks who fit these restrictions.
About 40% of all recallees went to staff, and about 60% went to Ops. "Ops" includes all flying jobs, wing-level non-flying jobs, trainers, UAVs, and ALO/AMLO. A higher percentage of Navs ended up on staff, as did ABMs, but their numbers were pretty small.
_________ABM___Nav/CSO___Pilot___Total
Ops...........9...........28.........215......252
Staff.........8...........50..........110......168
Total........17..........78..........325......420
As to what airframe folks went to, sorry, but I can't tell that exactly from the spreadsheet I have. What I can say is that the winner of the most desired base is .... Ramstein with 33 of us coming over for the grand European tour.
Creech was second overall, but first among pilots with 23 pilots (plus one nav). Beale and Travis tied for 3rd with 20 recallees each. Columbus, Scott, Randolph, Hickam, McChord, and Charleston round out the top ten locations. Those top 10 account for about 45% of all recallees. There were 73 different locations, 25 places each having only one guy (or gal).
Again, this data's not final. Hope this answers questions folks had, and I'll update it if or when I get new data.
About 40% of all recallees went to staff, and about 60% went to Ops. "Ops" includes all flying jobs, wing-level non-flying jobs, trainers, UAVs, and ALO/AMLO. A higher percentage of Navs ended up on staff, as did ABMs, but their numbers were pretty small.
_________ABM___Nav/CSO___Pilot___Total
Ops...........9...........28.........215......252
Staff.........8...........50..........110......168
Total........17..........78..........325......420
As to what airframe folks went to, sorry, but I can't tell that exactly from the spreadsheet I have. What I can say is that the winner of the most desired base is .... Ramstein with 33 of us coming over for the grand European tour.
Creech was second overall, but first among pilots with 23 pilots (plus one nav). Beale and Travis tied for 3rd with 20 recallees each. Columbus, Scott, Randolph, Hickam, McChord, and Charleston round out the top ten locations. Those top 10 account for about 45% of all recallees. There were 73 different locations, 25 places each having only one guy (or gal).
Again, this data's not final. Hope this answers questions folks had, and I'll update it if or when I get new data.
06-27-2010, 10:39 AM
#950
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by Kikuchiyo
I've been asked by a few folks for a breakdown of where recallees went. This is NOT a final list - it's only current as of early Apr. It only includes those who are listed by AFPC as being "on orders" as of early Apr. It only covers the three rated recall programs: Retired, Limited Period and Permanent. It does not include the ROTC recall, the non-rated recall, or any inter-service transferees. It only had 420 folks who fit these restrictions.
About 40% of all recallees went to staff, and about 60% went to Ops. "Ops" includes all flying jobs, wing-level non-flying jobs, trainers, UAVs, and ALO/AMLO. A higher percentage of Navs ended up on staff, as did ABMs, but their numbers were pretty small.
_________ABM___Nav/CSO___Pilot___Total
Ops...........9...........28.........215......252
Staff.........8...........50..........110......168
Total........17..........78..........325......420
As to what airframe folks went to, sorry, but I can't tell that exactly from the spreadsheet I have. What I can say is that the winner of the most desired base is .... Ramstein with 33 of us coming over for the grand European tour.
Creech was second overall, but first among pilots with 23 pilots (plus one nav). Beale and Travis tied for 3rd with 20 recallees each. Columbus, Scott, Randolph, Hickam, McChord, and Charleston round out the top ten locations. Those top 10 account for about 45% of all recallees. There were 73 different locations, 25 places each having only one guy (or gal).
Again, this data's not final. Hope this answers questions folks had, and I'll update it if or when I get new data.
About 40% of all recallees went to staff, and about 60% went to Ops. "Ops" includes all flying jobs, wing-level non-flying jobs, trainers, UAVs, and ALO/AMLO. A higher percentage of Navs ended up on staff, as did ABMs, but their numbers were pretty small.
_________ABM___Nav/CSO___Pilot___Total
Ops...........9...........28.........215......252
Staff.........8...........50..........110......168
Total........17..........78..........325......420
As to what airframe folks went to, sorry, but I can't tell that exactly from the spreadsheet I have. What I can say is that the winner of the most desired base is .... Ramstein with 33 of us coming over for the grand European tour.
Creech was second overall, but first among pilots with 23 pilots (plus one nav). Beale and Travis tied for 3rd with 20 recallees each. Columbus, Scott, Randolph, Hickam, McChord, and Charleston round out the top ten locations. Those top 10 account for about 45% of all recallees. There were 73 different locations, 25 places each having only one guy (or gal).
Again, this data's not final. Hope this answers questions folks had, and I'll update it if or when I get new data.
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