BDGERJMN

Concur! Fatty that was a pretty pi$$ poor response to some valid questions and observations. I was actually embarrassed as a military aviator to have read your response. I think if you go back and re-read his original post you'd find there was no finger pointing nor stereotyping, just questions that arguably are spot on in many cases.

KC10 FATboy

You guys are too uptight. I thought my post was funny ... I guess the sarcasm didn't quite make it through the words.

But, I stand by my point. If you are going to tell a story about someone and all of the "simple" things they messed up, but you "don't remember", don't get upset when I give you the hairy eyeball --- especially when you didn't fly with the guy.

I can respect the honest question ... do military guys have a problem flying civilian? But, if this person was genuine, then I would expect him to have more experience with military guys coming to his place of business and flying. Is this the first military guy that's come in his place of business? Perhaps.

Mox Nix

Yeah, the sarcasm doesn't always register well. Thanks for clarifying.

I had a pretty good experience when I got my ATP. My CFI at AllATPS was a YOUNG guy, maybe 24-25. He said he'd had several military guys come through, so he kind of knew what experience level he was dealing with and how they adapted to the airplane and the training profiles. He was on me a lot when I was getting behind, still getting used to the different surroundings - doing his job and not cutting me any slack just because I was a military guy. I thought he did a good job.

After the last debrief, when he sent me to the checkride, he asked me if I had any feedback for him...how he did as an instructor and could he do anything better. I was impressed that he asked the question. I gave him my honest answer and said that being an instructor isn't always about pointing out every mistake and deviation as soon as they happen...sometimes there's value in letting the student recognize and correct the mistake himself.

But a good experience overall. Two professional aviators learning from each other, each having something to offer. That's how it should be

Mox

BDGERJMN

That was exactly the same scenario I had for my ATP checkride. Admittedly the first flight I was *********s and elbows in the Seminole but by the second flight it was just another airplane. Don't get me wrong it was a challenge and the checkride was challenging and fair but it wasn't cosmic. My IP for the first day was pertty laid back, he'd been doing those flights for a while. The second flight IP was straight out of training so he was a little more straight laced. He still had alot to offer me as a single seat guy. I enjoyed the experience.

KC10 FATboy

When I took my ATP, I had just flown a year in the Beech 1900. Even though our military checkrides are much more difficult than an FAA ATP, the ATP check was one of the more difficult ones I can remember.

I had one day experience in the aircraft. My CFII was 20 years old and his boss running the place was maybe 22 years old. The examiner didn't care that I had only flown the airplane for one day. He made me fly a single engine NDB approach circle to land which is really no big deal, but it wasn't even on my radar scope as a possibility.

-Fatty

BDGERJMN

Fatty,

No offense intended I just thought you were a bit harsh on the young lad given his post. I didn't read into it the way you did, thanks for clarifying the intent.

nwaf16dude

Yeah, I got harrassed pretty good when I called gear down during my first sim at NWA. Then they asked me to fly an NDB approach...I said, what!? How do you spell that? Needless to say, I got to fly an NDB approach on all my sims after that one.

USMCFLYR

I couldn't remember. Like I said - it seems to catch them off guard. Maybe it is the fact that each aircraft has to make his own gear call (except on a section approach). Does each member of the flight make their own? Also - the base leg (though we don't have a standard base leg) is past the point that we would normally call the gear. I remember from my GA flying that no gear call is required, but about the only other thing I remember from the GA pattern is GUMPS

USMCFLYR

Mox Nix

What really set my hair on fire was the ping-pong opposite direction approaches we were doing. IAF, procedure turn, FAF, go missed, get to the MAF and turn around to start the next procedure turn because it's also the IAF for the other direction. Not the lazy 10-15 minute radar patterns I'm used to, with time to set up and brief the approach, pull the engine, smoke a lucky, etc. Squeezing every bit of training out of the 2 hours of flight time I paid for. The CFI was cross-checking the Hobbs meter almost as much as the other instruments....if we went over 2.0 hours they'd take the overage out of his paycheck

USMCFLYR

I haven't even seen an NDB since 1992 going through T-2C training. Of course my instructor was an OLD TBM pilot who flew NDBs all over he Pacific. I came out of that sim feeling like I could conquer the world and just about nay NDB approach. Alas - 16 years later and I would feel like a child again looking at another NDB approach!

USMCFLYR