Hi,
I wanted to see what guys are using for logging PIC time for the airlines. I have heard some guys use 80% of their primary time after their A/C upgrade date and other use 90%. I have tried to search but didn't come up with much. Any opinions are appreciated!

 

My best advice ... be conservative !!! Don't use other time. Repeat, DON'T USE OTHER TIME. Check the company's website for specific guidance, some do vary. They may allow you to use a conversion factor since the USAF only calculates time from wheels up to wheels down.

If you've kept your own log, use the real PIC/SIC numbers. Make sure your PIC + SIC - OTHER = TOTAL (on the application). DO NOT USE OTHER TIME AS PIC ... EVEN IF YOU WERE THE AC. Provide your log with a copy of your SARMs product and be able to explain how and why your numbers are what they are.

I didn't keep my own log. I used 95% of the PRI time as PIC after upgrade for the C-12 and 90% for the KC-10. The rest of that time became SIC. All the other time was removed. All evaluator and instructor time was counted as PIC. I included an easy to read excel spreadsheet explaining my calculations. Not ONE interviewer ever asked me about my flight time or how I calculated it.

Think back about your flights. If you're an 80% type of guy, use 80%. If you're a 90%, use 90%. Just use what you feel comfortable with. But don't use 100% of the time after upgrade.

Be conservative. Don't use other. You can't go wrong with this. Assuming you're a heavy USAF guy, you should have plenty of time so don't worry about it. NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK. Footstomp ... NETWORK.

Any questions?

 

Everyone I know includes Other time after AC upgrade. Someone is the PIC at all times, so if you're not then who is? Before upgrade, no one includes it, but I would after.

 

Would you include other time if the company states on their webpage not to, even if you were the AC?

When I was applying, most companies did not accept Other time, as was stated on their Career websites -- and they probably still don't. The Other time problem has been around since the history of the USAF. It is not new and trust me, the HR folks know all about other time. Think of it this way, will your future employer consider the time you were in the back snoozing, taking a deuce, or making a sandwhich, PIC time? If you think they will, include it. Otherwise, be conservative and don't.

Trust me ... if you meet the minimums in flying time, which any military pilot should, you're good. It is all about networking and letters of recommendations.

 

As KC said, read what they want CAREFULLY!

On about my third reading of the NWA app back in the day, I noted that Northwest wanted IP time split from PIC time. How it got totaled back in, I don't remember. But, I know of two fellow AETC guys that didn't see that and got tripped up in the interview and didn't get hired.

I don't know if Delta does that or will continue the NWA practice (assuming NWA continued to do that, as no one else did) but bottom line is

READ WHAT THEY WANT CAREFULLY!!

Ferd

 

What is the "other?" Are you talking about your aircraft commander time when you weren't the PAC (which I guess is the PIC for this purpose).

 

The Air Force does not use PIC and SIC designations when calculating flight time. Instead, it uses Primary (PRI) and Secondary (SEC) designations. Primary time is anytime you are occupying a duty position and you are manipulating the controls; the pilot flying. Secondary is the pilot monitoring.

If you are a crew member not occupying a duty position, and thus not logging PRI or SEC time, you then log "OTHER" time. Other time means that you aren't flying or monitoring the airplane. There is also instructor and evaluator time.

PRI + SEC + OTHER + INS + EVAL = TOTAL TIME

When you have multiple crew members on a flight, this causes a lot of angst for the Aircraft Commander during the paperwork. Some people were in the seats, some were not. Some were instructing, some were evaluating, maybe they were in the seats (PRI SEC), maybe not. Then figuring out instrument and night time gets worse.

No where on your official military transcripts does the USAF mention how much PIC time you have. But as ElGuapo stated earlier, most people count the total time after your Aircraft Commander upgrade as PIC. But the airlines know better because they know as an AC, you'll probably be flying with instructors, evaluators, or even other ACs who have been designated as the PIC for the given flight/trip.

Typical of the Air Force, they've managed to take something so simple, such as PIC/SIC, and screwed it all up.

 

PIC time equals who's a$$ is on the line for a mishap. Who signed the book for the plane. You can be a PIC and be sleeping in the back. Just make sure that you have accurate records to back up your time.

 

Hi!

Some foreign airlines will also not count Instructor time AT ALL. PIC/SIC/FE is all you can count for some of them. PIC only counts if alone in the plane (and NOT solo time), or if you are part of a crew.

cliff
LFW

 

Thanks for all the advice! Looks like I have been doing exactly what you guys have been spelling out. I may be a bit more conservative..I have just used 80% of my PRI time. Most guys I talked to have used 90% . Of course Other time has been totally thrown out. I'm going to work on printing out a nice product to show where my hours came etc. I don't have a log book..just planning on using SARM's product.